'19 Scat Pack MMX max effort cam + MMX tune too rich, logs and tune inside.

[Gasoholic392]

Hello all,

First post here. Looking for some help with my recently completed car (car had 9580 miles on it). Mods list as follows (all new parts):

MMX Max Effort Cam, Hellcat lifters, MDS deletes, Kooks long tubes w/cat deletes, Corsa Extreme 2.75in exhaust w/valves, Cometic MLX head gaskets, ATI Super Damper (6% OD), 88mm TheFastMan's Throttlebody, Wiles 4in Driveshaft, Innovate DLG-1 Widebands (analog signal sent to MPVI2 pro), Deleted rear O2 sensors, and all new gaskets (intake manifold, exhaust manifold, etc.), along with a few other things, but nothing major. No fuel upgrades, stock intake manifold.

Long story for set up: I've gotten a "base tune" from MMX for the cam on March 22. I loaded the tune and set the channels and layout requested. Reset adaptives, did a throttle relearn, and cleared any possible lagged DTCs. Turned the car on and it idled pretty bad. Through watching the log, I figured it was maybe a map sensor issue (but the car only has 9580 miles). Took it off cleaned it out with air and redid the steps before, minus resetting adaptives. Car fired up and idled better but that's due to the now long term trims and the new additional short term trims. Talking with MMX about all this, they wanted to confirm I had the timing right. It 100% is as I locked the motor at TDC with a gearheadfab flexplate lock, and I verified everything when installing probably 30 times.

After the car was able to idle for a long while because of getting better trims, I decided to drive it around the block. It drove okish (the fuel trims are all over the place). She threw no DTCs, and I believe if timing was off I wouldn't have been able to even drive it well enough. I sent these logs to MMX and highlighted that -33 short term trims and -29 long term trims was kinda a lot. Since then, myself and MMX are in agreement that the trims are "wonky" but I haven't been given a revision or any specific help to narrow down how to get these trims in line. I'm beginning to think I won't receive much help on the matter, so I'm turning to reaching out to whoever I can. Comparing my stock file and the MMX file, nothing was really done to the airflow (VE) or fuel tables.

Bottom line, I think it's the tune file I was sent. It can't be right.

I've attached the tune file and the most recent log. The most recent log (yesterday, March 29th), is after I reset the adaptives again, did a throttle relearn, and cleared DTCs (even though there were none).

The only things I can think of as a potential is my car is 91 pump (I told them this), and possibly now that I have a 6%OD crank pulley it may be jacking with the "voltage offset tables" for the injectors. I know on my turbo s2k (on AEM) that the battery offset tables were handy in dialing in idle and all else because of the huge injectors.

Also, sorry for the long post right out of the gate, but I really want to get this dialed in and be ready for the track season coming up.

[Gasoholic392]

Also, just thought of this, I don't want this to devolve into a MMX bashing thread so please refrain from doing so. Lets just work together to hopefully get me an 11.0 pass!!!

And just to clear something up for any astute readers of the files. I did lower the idle rpms in a few tables from what was given to me. Lower by like 8 rpms just to verify that the tune was in fact loading to the ecu as that was one thing MMX said was happening; that the tune wasn't loaded to the ecu.

[Iceyrider]

The first thing that jumps out at me is that they turned off the Neural Network and changed the cam settings, but the VE tables look like stock. I have their NSR stage 3 cam. I will attach my tune FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. Please just use it for comparison as it is probably not safe for your car. I believe it is set up for open loop only, but the low load and idle VE is pretty close to perfect. I should also add, cam timing has a HUGE effect on part throttle fueling, so as cam timing is changed, VE probably will need to be adjusted.

KristenHighOctaneOLSDV14.hpt

[Gasoholic392]

Thanks for taking a look.

I can confirm that all the VE tables are 100% stock as I?ve been using the compare feature to look over what exactly what was ?tuned.?

I guess I made the wrong assumption that ?tunes available? for the cam packages meant that they had already cleaned up a solid tune to work with the standard mods and only needed minor cleaning up per car. That?s on me.

Also, thank you for attaching your tune. I?ll look it over and compare it between the stock and mmx tune and see what I see.

Anyone else got any thoughts? Thanks.

[Party340]

Another issue that I see that is unrelated to your trims but will affect performance is the normal exhaust cam timing tables. They are set to 93 at part throttle. You have a phase limiter that will never allow it to reach that setpoint. On top of that if the cam is at full retard it takes a little while for it to reached the desired WOT value when you step on the gas. The result is a loss of power until the cam phasing can reach setpoint. On my car it can take a whole gear change before it get's where it needs to be. I would change all of those values to something like 130. Iceyrider I think that you have way to much cam retard at WOT just my 2cents.

[rockystock]

I'd recommend no WOT runs with that tune. I'm no professional but that tune looks dangerous. They added a full volt to every cell in all 8 knock sensor tables. Sorry but that's not a tune, that's a hack. Looks like a recipe for disaster. I'm comparing to a stock 2016 392; could you send your stock tune? And could you also post up the log you took while driving around? I'd like to see how far your cam phases to hopefully make some recommendations for you.

You might be better off turning the neural network back on. Those stock VE tables are garbage; the stock ANN is probably closer to what you need at this point.

I'd recommend returning the following back to stock for now:

- knock thresholds (basically turn your knock sensors back on...),
- WOT Base, Alcohol, and WOT VVT Lockpin spark tables,
- Throttle Spark and Throttle Spark Knock Tables.

Once you get your airflow sorted by tuning either VE or Neural Network Trainer, then you'll be much safer to start putting some timing back into it.

[shak3r]

Did u get ur tune sorted out? I have same cam, using ANN with ok results but not 100% yet.

[14HemiRam]

Did u get ur tune sorted out? I have same cam, using ANN with ok results but not 100% yet.

Older thread I know but I?m curious as to how it turned out for you using ANN? I just installed a 6.4 with 12.1 CR and I?m needing to get it dialed in was curious as to how well it worked?

[shak3r]

I ended up using a VE tune (not ANN) w/ that cam, but was never thrilled w/ the performance. I have since replaced the entire setup w/ a built 426 stroker w/ a maggie SC.

[14HemiRam]

shak3r Ok thanks for the response. Would you happen to still have one of your tunes for that cam that I could do some comparisons with? Thanks