new to tuning LS3 376/480

[beararcher]

Okay so a bit new to tuning using a laptop and could use a little help.

I have a 2010 Camaro 2ss 6 speed manual with 108k miles. I bought it two years ago and haven't done anything to it. Previous owner put cold air intake, headers cat delete with 3'' exhaust. I was told they had it tuned. Fast forward 12k miles and two years and it drops a valve and destroyed the engine.


So I'm in the proses of putting in a new create engine gm's 376/480 {6.2 with a bigger cam}.

My question to Y'all is this. Is this a safe tune? Am i good to brake in the new engine with the current tune or should i change anything before starting? I do want to get this dialed in so i bought the MPVI3 and a aem wide band.

Zach's Camaro.hpt

[horsepowerguru427]

It might be close enough to let it run but it wont be correct. there will be several things that need to be adjusted in the tune for a larger cam. If youre not familiar with the process then id recommend reading up on the forums/ tuning books and watching some videos on adjusting VVE and MAF at the very least. Theres tons of info on GEN 3 tuning out there and it isnt a whole lot different than gen 4 when it comes to those 2 things. Im not near my laptop (im at work) so i cant open the tune at the moment to give you anything more specific on what really needs to be changed. VVE and MAF will definitely have to be tuned and probly VTT as well, If the last tuner did a good job then you really shouldnt have to adjust a whole lot more than those for just a cam change.

[beararcher]

Thanks for the info. There seems to be a learning curve to it all. Unfortunately I haven't had much time to get familiar with tuning using a laptop. My normal go to is a screwdriver. I'm off work tonight though so I'll be looking into it a bit more.

[horsepowerguru427]

Yes, its a pretty tall learning curve no matter what your background is. Also very frustrating when you first start learning, just remember that there isnt ONE WAY to tune. there are lots of variations and ways to accomplish the same things. Lots of opinions also. read read read. Calibrated success is a very good place to start if you have no idea wahts going on, well worth the money. Goat rope garage is alright and if you dont mind paying then evans is alright as well. Personally ive found that a lot of the tuning schools teach basic how to's but with not many specifics. what i mean is youll understand WHAT the goal is but you wont have any idea how to do it on your software or setup. I kinda thought it was a waste of my time and money since i took classes after id been tuning for around 4 years and everything they taught in class i already knew from reading free material online.

[Alvin]

Okay so a bit new to tuning using a laptop and could use a little help.

I have a 2010 Camaro 2ss 6 speed manual with 108k miles. I bought it two years ago and haven't done anything to it. Previous owner put cold air intake, headers cat delete with 3'' exhaust. I was told they had it tuned. Fast forward 12k miles and two years and it drops a valve and destroyed the engine.


So I'm in the proses of putting in a new create engine gm's 376/480 {6.2 with a bigger cam}.

My question to Y'all is this. Is this a safe tune? Am i good to brake in the new engine with the current tune or should i change anything before starting? I do want to get this dialed in so i bought the MPVI3 and a aem wide band.

Zach's Camaro.hpt

You might not want to hear this... or maybe you do.. The cam that is used in that engine is pretty pitiful. I've made 45 rwhp gains over that cam with a similar "size" cam with more modern profiles.


The cam they use have the sames specs they sold as a LT4 hotcam going back to the 90's.. Same lift and duration for a 90's LT1, LS1, LS3.

[PJBURGES]

Alvin that's not entirely accurate. In the 90's they were not running roller lifters - they had flat tappets and thus the profile was not the same. The advantage of the 'LS' version of the hotcam is that its real easy on the valve-train. So if you want to run that engine for 250k miles - that will do it. YES, there are more modern profiles but none of them are as easy on the valve-train. Everything is a trade-off.

Beararcher- Whats wrong with GM's LS376/480 tune? Why not just run that on your engine? That's the advantage of a GM performance crate engine - somebody did the work for you! I am building a 6.0 NNBS Gen 4 truck engine with the heads and cam off the LS376/480 right now for application in a Tahoe. Runs similar flat-top pistons with a slightly higher CR. Otherwise a very similar setup. Its a grocery getter. I took the tables out of the GM LS376/480 tune and copy-pasted into the Tahoe's ECM. Started right up and is running pretty close. The MAF was off quite a bit. I don't have a card-style MAF, and thus started the truck up on the old MAF table. The VE table is off too - but not that bad. Plenty close enough to go drive it around. Since you have that actual engine - should it not just be (nearly) plug and play?

Cheers keep me posted!

[GHuggins]

Here's the stock 480 and 495 hp files. Only a couple small changes between the two. I will tell you there is power on the table and these things will drive super smooth with a manual transmission with the right tune. The VE tables are WAY off - If you can I recommend doing a 2 bar and converting to 1 bar and tuning them in that way for other benefits as these things don't seem to have the cooling that they really need...

[blindsquirrel]

Alvin that's not entirely accurate. In the 90's they were not running roller lifters - they had flat tappets and thus the profile was not the same. The advantage of the 'LS' version of the hotcam is that its real easy on the valve-train. So if you want to run that engine for 250k miles - that will do it. YES, there are more modern profiles but none of them are as easy on the valve-train. Everything is a trade-off.

Starting in 1987 the car engines got rollers, trucks stuck with flat tappets (even if the car and trucks were the same engine RPO - a truck L03/L05 is FT and a car L03/L05 is roller). By the time of the LT1 & LT4, all versions of everything were hydraulic roller.

[Alvin]

Alvin that's not entirely accurate. In the 90's they were not running roller lifters - they had flat tappets and thus the profile was not the same. The advantage of the 'LS' version of the hotcam is that its real easy on the valve-train. So if you want to run that engine for 250k miles - that will do it. YES, there are more modern profiles but none of them are as easy on the valve-train. Everything is a trade-off.

Beararcher- Whats wrong with GM's LS376/480 tune? Why not just run that on your engine? That's the advantage of a GM performance crate engine - somebody did the work for you! I am building a 6.0 NNBS Gen 4 truck engine with the heads and cam off the LS376/480 right now for application in a Tahoe. Runs similar flat-top pistons with a slightly higher CR. Otherwise a very similar setup. Its a grocery getter. I took the tables out of the GM LS376/480 tune and copy-pasted into the Tahoe's ECM. Started right up and is running pretty close. The MAF was off quite a bit. I don't have a card-style MAF, and thus started the truck up on the old MAF table. The VE table is off too - but not that bad. Plenty close enough to go drive it around. Since you have that actual engine - should it not just be (nearly) plug and play?

Cheers keep me posted!

Its accurate.. LT4 hot cams were hydraulic rollers also. And the LT4 hot cam, LS1 hot cam kit, and the LS3 hotcam that they are using in this engine are all 218/228 or 219/228 depending where you read and 0.525/0.525 lift. Those three engines are very different from each other so its obvious none of them were optimized.

And there is an absolute ton to pick up with tuning on them. A decent amount of power but much much better driveablilty.

[beararcher]

You might not want to hear this... or maybe you do.. The cam that is used in that engine is pretty pitiful. I've made 45 rwhp gains over that cam with a similar "size" cam with more modern profiles.


The cam they use have the sames specs they sold as a LT4 hotcam going back to the 90's.. Same lift and duration for a 90's LT1, LS1, LS3.

Alvin I know it not a big cam. This car was supposed to be my daily untill the unfortunate happened. I was all over the map when trying to decide on what to put back in it. I finally landed on this because it wasn't wild but did give a little extra. On top that it was only $400 more then a stock 376

[beararcher]

Alvin that's not entirely accurate. In the 90's they were not running roller lifters - they had flat tappets and thus the profile was not the same. The advantage of the 'LS' version of the hotcam is that its real easy on the valve-train. So if you want to run that engine for 250k miles - that will do it. YES, there are more modern profiles but none of them are as easy on the valve-train. Everything is a trade-off.

Beararcher- Whats wrong with GM's LS376/480 tune? Why not just run that on your engine? That's the advantage of a GM performance crate engine - somebody did the work for you! I am building a 6.0 NNBS Gen 4 truck engine with the heads and cam off the LS376/480 right now for application in a Tahoe. Runs similar flat-top pistons with a slightly higher CR. Otherwise a very similar setup. Its a grocery getter. I took the tables out of the GM LS376/480 tune and copy-pasted into the Tahoe's ECM. Started right up and is running pretty close. The MAF was off quite a bit. I don't have a card-style MAF, and thus started the truck up on the old MAF table. The VE table is off too - but not that bad. Plenty close enough to go drive it around. Since you have that actual engine - should it not just be (nearly) plug and play?

Cheers keep me posted!

Honestly I haven't thought about that. I'll look into it more.

Thank you GHuggins for posting the files. That's a lot of help.

I just finished installing the new engine. Tomorrow after work I hope to fire it up. I'll keep y'all updated.

[2xLS1]

I agree with what's been said about that being such a poor cam choice for the LS3 with those square port heads. I always told people to buy the low HP LS3 crate motor and pick a better cam . You come out money ahead too and have a better running engine. It seems like very little engineering was put into some of the crate motors from parts selection to the calibrations in the ECMs that come with some of them. It almost seems like they said lets see what parts we have laying around on the shelf and just threw together what they had.

[beararcher]

I agree with what's been said about that being such a poor cam choice for the LS3 with those square port heads. I always told people to buy the low HP LS3 crate motor and pick a better cam . You come out money ahead too and have a better running engine. It seems like very little engineering was put into some of the crate motors from parts selection to the calibrations in the ECMs that come with some of them. It almost seems like they said lets see what parts we have laying around on the shelf and just threw together what they had.

From my experience there is and always will be something bigger or better in some way shape or form. This engine fit my budget and needs better than anything else I could find. Mainly the bugget part. With everything I'm replacing with new I'm amount 8k deep.

[Alvin]

Alvin I know it not a big cam. This car was supposed to be my daily untill the unfortunate happened. I was all over the map when trying to decide on what to put back in it. I finally landed on this because it wasn't wild but did give a little extra. On top that it was only $400 more then a stock 376

Oh that's the point I'm making.. That cam might make 10 more rwhp than stock.. and its a decent sized cam.. one that will drive better in the same "size" will make just a tremendous difference. I have stealthy cams that you can't hear at all that will make a ton more power than that hotcam.

[beararcher]

Oh that's the point I'm making.. That cam might make 10 more rwhp than stock.. and its a decent sized cam.. one that will drive better in the same "size" will make just a tremendous difference. I have stealthy cams that you can't hear at all that will make a ton more power than that hotcam.

I can't say I disagree with you. But it was a simple choice for me. No time or funds to get exactly what I wanted. This is what I settled on and for only $400 more then stock engine, I figure it's worth it.

[beararcher]

So I fired it up after I got off work yesterday. I guess i didn't do something right with the tune. I tried using the base tune for the 376/480 but it wouldn't stay running. So I went back to the original tune that came with the car. I did however increase the idle a bit before writing it. It ran but it was rough. Going forward what would be the best route? What should I do first to get started? Learn more I suppose...

So far everything is buttoned up and the wide band is installed. Really all that I lack is knowledge experience and a good tune on the car.

[Alvin]

Raising the Idle airflow minimum will help get you going.

Try reading up on VVE tuning. This cam will need it down low.

[GHuggins]

^^^ Yes, the VE tables that these things came with were WAY off. They also had some background stuff in the cal that kept the throttle from closing so they didn't need the min air like your ls3 operating system will.

[TheMechanic]

Are you talking about [ECM] 12087 ??
What are you raising it by initially? Whole table 20%? Part of the table? Doubling it?

[GHuggins]

Yeah, I probably should have clarified that. If he's indeed using his original ls3's tune - raise the min air up in the idle area to match what's in the 480 calibration then smooth over to a high value of 22ish. He could also add something like 5 to his whole original tune's min air. He'll want to make the brake settings the same too for the TB - that alone will help. Treat it like a normal modded engine tune in whilst carrying over the majority of things from the 480 cal like idle rpm, timing, fueling and things like that...