2019 e92a ecu swap question

[modularfox]

I have a l83 swap that's from a 2019 Tahoe, motor and trans. Paid the credits and unlocked it and starts and runs .... and am not liking it compared to my e92 ecu with a 2014 operating system.

2014 operating system crank within 2-3 seconds... still not LS swap startup... but doable
2019 factory operating system cranks about 8 seconds then starts - trash, sounds broken

Besides the fuel pressure sensor and related wiring, is it possible to flash a e92 2014 operating system on the e92a computer without consequence?
If so how will this effect the transmission ecu? would it break its communication and put it in failsafe?
If I write entire, my 2014 ecu/trans to my 2019 ecu/trans?


I dont believe the long crank will just heal itself to normal.. and cant stand it.

thanks
clint

[5FDP]

In a stock 2019 Tahoe, it's not going to crank for 8 seconds and then start. Something is obviously going on for it to cause that.


And to answer one of your questions, no you can not write a 2014 file into a E92A computer.

[modularfox]

thank you for your reply, this is not a stock vehicle, a pullout from a 2019 tahoe stuffed in a 2006 bmw.

vats 1 and starter diag disabled.

fuel pressure is good 72 psi. almost like it does not get crank signal but its a swap.. (15yr master tech for BMW, most BMWs takes about 4 revolutions before it starts if someone forgets to plug in the sensor or worse, forgets the tone wheel between crank and flywheel)

would you happen to have experience or know if a mix match e92 ecu and 6l80e tcu is compatible without transmission going into failsafe or limp mode ? I have one spare ecu, 2014.
thanks again,
clint

[modularfox]

I don't understand what is keeping the crank signal from reading when key on crank per hp tuners scanner display... i think this is the cause of the long crank.. its like its relying on the cam sensor data to establish a known good crank position and then say its ok to start...
swap wise, crank sensor, 3 wires strait to the ecu...
I logged it and its on cam count 9 when the crankshaft sensor spits out an rpm... did the test 2 x and same.... letting the battery recover from all the starts and short runs.
any insight on this?

[GHuggins]

A swap should crank up just like normal unless you have powers or grounds dropping out from the crank load. There are several dtc's that have to be cut off and you have to make sure the fpcm is out of the equation. You "shouldn't" be able to mismatch controllers. Just swapping OS's and having those not work with one another can cause enough headaches. I'm dealing with that right now on another one where it's causing torque management to yank timing over and over again. You'll need to post the tune to confirm anything.

[modularfox]

Thanks for your reply. Im not wanting to swap modules just yet, I dont want to create some boo boo mess that is going to cost a lot of money to fix, i.e. new TCM or ECM. I was reading on one site, RPMextreme mentioned matching ecu OS with the trans OS... not sure if its that simple? but sounds like it could be, dump the calibration ECU and TCU from a different year onto it.. but not E92 and E92a as it was said no go earlier in post 2.

Of all the swaps, they all have a delayed crank ... last 2 used factory fuel modules, factory low pressure fuel sensor and aftermarket pumps. fuel pressure set at 72psi and all had a long crank... this one is just longer than "normal 3 seconds or so".

I have tons of permanent faults, not sure if i set them when testing something or not, but a copy and paste of the current list:

0x7E8: P0010 - Intake (A) Camshaft Position Actuator Circuit / Open (Bank 1) (Permanent)
0x7E8: P0030 - HO2S Heater Control Circuit (Bank 1, Sensor 1) (Permanent)
0x7E8: P0031 - HO2S Heater Control Circuit Low (Bank 1, Sensor 1) (Permanent)
0x7E8: P0050 - HO2S Heater Control Circuit (Bank 2, Sensor 1) (Permanent)
0x7E8: P0054 - HO2S Heater Resistance (Bank 1, Sensor 2) (Pending, Current, Old)
0x7E8: P0073 - Ambient Air Temperature Sensor Circuit High (Permanent)
0x7E8: P0107 - Manifold Absolute Pressure/BARO Sensor Low (Permanent)
0x7E8: P0118 - Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit High (Permanent)
0x7E8: P018C - Fuel Pressure Sensor B Circuit Low (SES, Pending, Current, Old, Permanent, History)
0x7E8: P0335 - Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit (SES, Pending, Current, Old, History)
0x7E8: P0443 - Evaporative Emission System Purge Control Valve Circuit (Permanent)
0x7E8: P0449 - Evaporative Emission System Vent Control Circuit Intermittent (Permanent)
0x7E8: P0452 - Evaporative Emission System Pressure Sensor/Switch Low (Permanent)
0x7E8: P0458 - Evaporative Emission System Purge Control Valve Circuit Low (Permanent)
0x7E8: P0463 - Fuel Level Sensor A Circuit High (Permanent)
0x7E8: P0480 - Fan 1 Control Circuit (Permanent)
0x7E8: P057C - Brake Pedal Position Sensor Circuit Low (Permanent)
0x7E8: P135A - Ignition Coil Supply Voltage Circuit 1 (Permanent)
0x7E8: P135B - Ignition Coil Supply Voltage Circuit 2 (Permanent)
0x7E8: P158A (Pending, Current, Old, History)
0x7E8: P16A1 - Sensor Communication Circuit High Voltage (Permanent)
0x7E8: P16E5 (Permanent)
0x7E8: P2089 - Intake Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator Solenoid Control Circuit High Voltage Bank 1 (Permanent)


these... well one I can explain..

0x7E8: P018C - Fuel Pressure Sensor B Circuit Low (SES, Pending, Current, Old, Permanent, History)
0x7E8: P0335 - Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit (SES, Pending, Current, Old, History)

I had the fuel pressure sensor wired and connected when i was verifying i set fuel pressure correctly. I disconnected it since I need to remove carpeting and seats to run the wiring through an original wire loom hole that passes through the floor board.

with it connected or not, it made no difference in crank times

the crank sensor code ... I don't know why its being set.. its displaying rpm on the scanner, but I will pull the starter this weekend and wire test the 3 wires perform pin drag test and inspect the sensor terminals...

as far as permanent codes, is there a list of what type of drive cycle clears them. I just did the first test drive, less than a mile and that is clearly not going to do much of anything

ill update after wire testing
clint

[GHuggins]

Well you can mismatch controllers and it start and run. Tuning one right now that has a temporary tcm installed just so we can get some driving data until his unlocked vin matched tcm shows up. However, it's banging into gear and having all sorts of issues with shifting - I'm sure you could possibly tune around this, but I'm not going to try as it has the correct tcm on it's way. I've got another one running a 17OS in a 18's TCM with a 18's ECM OS. Again it's driving, but NOT HAPPY - torque management is killing his timing. I'm probably going to have to drive a couple of hours to him and try to load an entire 17's OS into his ECM and TCM so it'll run right - in fact the more I think about it this will probably be the only solution for his. So is it possible to mismatch - well with killing enough dtc's and checks - yes it is, BUT it just causes headaches... Apparently in 18 they did away with some speed sensor in the tranny which made them to where they wouldn't take throttle in a swap anymore - this is supposed to be 8 speeds only. By changing them to a 17's OS and adding the sensor they'll move and take throttle. This is what my customer was telling me through one of his swap groups. I don't know the details of it as all of the swaps I've done drove and took throttle, but were 6 speeds. The only 8 speeds swaps I've had were 17 or older year donors...

Now as for yours - you have a lot of DTC's that can very easily cause cranking issues. I suggest killing what codes you need to and then doing a write entire. A write entire will usually kill off codes that were set by accident and then whatever codes are left I would focus on.

[modularfox]

thank you @GHuggins for your reply and recommendation. I will do a write entire tomorrow, I want to let the battery recover from the repeated cranks, logs and... I've hit space bar before saving the log, several times .. dang youtube pause = space bar.... hptuners = erase log and try and connect...

I've attached the log with the PID's that may be related to long crank?... if related, not sure how to correlate a solution, but, this is just looking for differences between known good and what I have...

Also attached is the log showing the crank counts (not sure how to correlate it yet... revolutions of cam more than likely)... and the RPM not displaying till 9th count in this case...

I remember a coworker doing a lifter repair on his fathers truck (2019ish,L84 engine) and asked him if he could bring his fathers truck back the shop to scan his truck with these same PID's.... just to compare differences .. eta next week

clint

[GHuggins]

I just looked at one of my customers logs for a cammed 17 I'm tuning - still not an E92a, but from the time he started cranking to when it actually fired was 7/10ths of a second via the scanner's timer. I don't log cam and crank counts as they always seem to bog the scanner down logging that kind of stuff, so can't help you on that part but looking at your log yours is a full second or just over before it fires and your cam counter and everything is reading. You could probably work on crank timing and get it a little better. I don't see the really long 3 or 4 seconds in that particular log.

[5FDP]

Logs are saved automatically, you never have to click save log. You can find them in the VCM scanner files on your computer.

[modularfox]

I don't see the really long 3 or 4 seconds in that particular log.

I paid closer attention to the counter on the log file, 2 full seconds of cranking before engine rpm counts and then runs... as far as logging the cam counter counts... It was a post I found to trouble shoot long cranks ... they mentioned to see if the cam sensor is working or not... then I seen the counts and the rpm "situation" that may or may not be the problem... thus wanting to look at a factory vehicle.

@5FDP, thank you for the log saved location... googled where to find it, yes sir, right where you said. The other logs is also almost dead on 2 seconds of full cranking before runs. Maybe I have the "doctor waiting room phenomenon" on timing here... just seems longer than actual.. but logs time stamped thanks again for your help!

not sure how helpfull a video of it cranking will be, but just for audio/visual, but I will add one tomorrow after work.
clint

[vannatta20]

Delete the low pressure fuel codes. There are three. If not running a low pressure sensor delete them. Never delete a fuel rail sensor code. Completely different. Next the 335 code is an issue. Do your test and see if there is a problem. That alone will cause a long crank and backfiring pissed off engine. Permanent codes mean nothing. They disappear after a drive cycle on a fresh swap.

Swaptime

[modularfox]

I've wire tested as I would do on a customers car: sensor to ECU, .2 ohm, checked shorted power and shorted to ground - all pass. pin drag test good. Well, wires are good must be sensor... just replaced the sensor from the dealer, nope.... cleared faults, re-tested, nope... Still long crank (may be related) and RPM (SAE) does not read. Kinda wonder if its an operating system issue? I don't know how to tell but I certainly don't want to buy 200 in credits to flash some other on it.

I logged: both engine RPM and RPM (SAE)

RPM (SAE) : does not read
RPM : reads after the 8th cam count

Generic OBD2 hand held scanner does not read RPM either. Research shows RPM (SAE) is broadcasted across the can...... RPM is the one that is polled and requested.

Nothing else is on the 5v line per schematics
A lot is on the ground side, but all seems to be reading correctly : accelerator pedal, coolant temp, mas airflow, etc. I'd imagine if one was bad, all would be acting up.

also turned a few more DTC's off that didn't seem relevant, along with the low pressure fuel sensor since its disconnected now.

not sure other than try another ecu... which is next question:

throwing this out there in the dark, can you install a non unlocked/stock ecu (in my case a 2014), and try and crank the engine just to see if it reads RPM (SAE) and RPM... It would not start due to the VATS + fuel rail pressure sensor, and maybe the TCM not a match....

I dont know if it will do any thing weird or unforeseen such as far as locking the TCM out or something. I've looked at wire pinout, it looks like almost everything the same except the fuel pressure sensor. i could just unplug the fuel rail sensor just to be safe?

Thanks again for help and feedback,
Clint

[BPella]

Here is a 2019 Silverado LD base file (100% stock) from my truck. This is the direct cylinder injection 5.3, 6L80 trans and should be useful for your swap. This LD is the last year before you needed to hack the TCM. I hope this helps. Also, with direct injection, the fuel rail pressures are much higher with the direct injection which could be related to engine cranking times.

[modularfox]

I made a spreadsheet 2019 and 2014, minor differences... such as hood swith signal/low ref, fuel pump prime, motor lin bus (for active flaps) but other than the fuel pressure sensor the same so I felt ok to swap the ecu and crank over the engine for testing... nope, same result, no RPM (SAE).....
swapped back the 2019 computer... did a few crank and run tests... most times its on count 8 or 9 rpm reads, not RPM(SAE) one time it read rpm on count 4 and started on 6ish..
read faults, p0355 came back... wonder if this is because of crank relearn? in some youtube videos when they did itt, their version displayed wait till at operating temperature then do it, and then it pops up, successful.

All i get is is something along the lines of "rev engine till cut out, cycle ignition to complete.."
I've never done crank relearn at operating temperature since it didn't specify.. mine as well try that tomorrow after work.

I even unplugged 2 of the 3 things that's BMW related connected to ECU or trans... a/c pressure sensor and the tap shift resistor pack.... same result. 3rd being the throttle pedal.

clint

[modularfox]

embarrassing mistake, but I wanted to share since multiple people were willing to help

update: found the problem. It was not crank relearn procedure, youtubed it and usually you get a p0315 code.
I double checked the Ignition/Crank/Run and B+ at the fuse box, all good.
I was about to break out the oscilloscope but needed to back probe the ecu connector. I took the back shell off, back probed with test pin, and when trying to install the X3 ecu connector back on, I was having trouble getting the connector to install due to the locks not being able to slide. I removed the locks from the connector body and carefully slid the connector on... it didn't seem like it was as far as the other 2 connectors. I removed the connector and looked at the Gray connector terminal lock, looked normal, but when I touched it, it rocked a every so slightly. I Removed the other 2 connectors, no rocking. I then removed the Gray connector lock and sum b... both pin 25 and 26 for crank sensor were not fully seated, probably not even far enough to make contact. The lock had slight deformation and would not install, put the heat gun on it for a few seconds very carefully and it straightened itself out.. was not expecting that at all lol, continued and reinstalled it.. fired up HPtuners VCM Scaner... fixed, swap start up like normal.

When I wire tested, I didn't pay attention to how far I was inserting the test pin... Had I noticed how far it was going in to make contact, I probably could have saved 35$ on the sensor and a huge headache... I removed the other 2 ecu terminal locks and all other wires were all seated... sum b.... So no to start logging a/f ratio and do some MAF tuning, put some shake down miles on it and see about getting it tuned

thanks again for everyone's help
Clint