Which Wideband is right for YOU?

[Omega]

I picked up the AEM this time around. I had the first version of the Innovate WB02 and found it VERY finicky to setup and keep calibrated.

I was surprised that the AEM power wires are nothing fancy while the Innovate instructions made a big fuss about constant power with decent gauge wire.

The AEM comes with enough wire from the gauge to run it out the window, over the hood, down the front bumper and then back under the car to where the bung it welded! I saw on the bmotorsports site (thanks RWTD!!) they sell new crimp pins for the sensor connector. Would the calibration/sensitivity be effected if I trim the wire to my desired length and repinned it? I would hate to go through the hassle if that would have severe consequences. I'm just not into having a ton of wire coiled up in the cabin.

[ssms5411]

I have had my PLX wideband for 9 years now with no problems and it was .2 off from the dyno shops wideband (thid was about 8 runs total so its fo real and 3 sepearate times), but like he said mines after the Y and his was in 1 tail pipe so that would make the difference. Best money I ever bought, I thought one time it was bad so Iordered a replacement wideband sensor for it for $55 shipped but turned out the connection underneath had came loose. Plug it back in and it clicked and the wdeband still working great. Even with a stock car Hptuners and a wideband is well worth the money, just for the HP gains and milage, tire size changes TQ mang or anu other problems that come up. best programing tool invented for OBDII. Just my opinion.

[-MD- HHR]

Has anyone used the new MTX-L: Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge by Innovate Motorsports?

I assume this statement,"(2) 0-5v fully programmable linear analog outputs for use with engine management systems “closed-loop” and external dataloggers ", would make using this the same as the other Innovate Motorsports widebands with HPTuners?

[-MD- HHR]

Really not one comment...

[Omega]

I don't think Innovate are as popular as they make themselves out to be.

Yes, that output will work with HPTuners.

[motorheadmike]

Has anyone used the new MTX-L: Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge by Innovate Motorsports?

I assume this statement,"(2) 0-5v fully programmable linear analog outputs for use with engine management systems “closed-loop” and external dataloggers ", would make using this the same as the other Innovate Motorsports widebands with HPTuners?

Basically the MTX unit is replacing the XD-16... and mine is on order.

I looked at the 3 best common options I had in front of me (that included a realtime readout via a "gauge") and these were:
1) AEM Uego - $220+tax;
2) NGK AFX - $346+tax; and
3) Innovate MTX-L - $226+tax.

I have read a lot of issues surrounding the AEM unit (some are discussed here in this thread); the NGK was my preferred choice but for some reason they want nearly $100 over the US MSRP up here so it got tossed out; that left the MTX-L which is a brand new product but seems to have some nice features and I have had great success with the LC-1 in my Turbo Buick.

The installation of the MTX-L also looks very simple and it should makes for a cleanly transferable unit between my LSx powered cars as I need to tune them.

The only real downside for me (and this is rather petty) is finding an effective temporary mounting solution in the car/truck... I may just mock something up with GPS windsheild mount. Who knows?

Don't be afraid to try something new...

[jassick]

would you ahve went with the NGK AFX combo if it was 275ish shipped? I'm in the market right now and for some reason i'm preferring that (can't remember why as i do research in spurts and cant remember what it was that made me lean toward it.)

also, this won't need to be portable. it's going on one car and staying there.

[LSxpwrdZ]

I've used almost all consumer widebands and the NGK hands down is the most accurate.

I had one LC-1 take a crap, the analog output's do not work anymore and my serial XD-1 gauge will only connect if you hold the connector just right. It also killed sensor's prematurely. I then got a LM-1 and it was decent other than the power port breaking the solder joints on the board and stopping working every few months of use I finally fixed the problem by epoxying the port to the board so it couldn't break loose anymore. It was really a good wideband but tended to make car's run a little on the rich side if you went truley off it's numbers. I also had 2 AEM widebands at the same time I was using the LM-1 and it was absolutely terrible on it's readings! You could never keep a consistant AFR from day to day with it. I put both the LM-1 and the AEM in a Honda I was driving at the time to test them both against each other for a few day's and the LM-1 read the same AFR everyday, however the AEM was all over the place. After that I kept using the LM-1 and sold the AEM! I had just about worn out the LM-1 after about 2-3 yrs of use so I replaced it with the NGK and have been completely satisfied with it. I've been using it for over a year now and it has been one of the best so far.

If you require a dual channel wideband for the money you can't beat the Haltech. I ran it in my 403 camaro and it was just as accurate as my NGK. I posted this in another WB thread but I put the NGK in the car along with the Haltech and they read identical Lambda readings!

[LS2-GTO]

I've had an LM-1 since they came out (original white unit).
First sensor lasted over 30,000 miles of everyday use.

If you don't use the sensor when in the exhaust it will damage it.
Oil and silicone gasket sealants can also damage an o2 sensor.

[5_Liter_Eater]

I have the AEM and I'm going to have to advise against it based on James' comments above about the analog output not being consistent. I have seen the same thing. Been dealing with it for years. I always thought it was because I was piping it through the AC pressure sensor input but now that I have the AEM output going to an Aeroforce Interceptor I can see it's not related to the AC.

[5_Liter_Eater]

So since my AEM is so inconsistent I'm in the market for a new one. I'd like a gauge type since I have the AEM in my pillar along with my Interceptor so I'm kind of going back and forth between the Autometer and the MTX. I like the Autometer because it has a separate ground for the analog output so that makes me think it will be more accurate when piped in through my AC pressure sensor. I also like that it has a visual lean AFR alarm. I like the MTX because it has two outputs. But then again it's an Innovate and I'm scared it will bork. Then again I'm also prone to going with tried and true AFX and keep it in the glove box and just filling the hole with something else. Decisions decisions...

[SargeZ06]

Just get an NGK AFX and this programmable gauge. It's 0-5v and you can setup the NGK slope and intercept.

http://www.aeroforcetech.com/products_order_gm.html

[5_Liter_Eater]

I already have the Aeroforce and have it set up for alerting. I could use it to alert on IAT or KR if the Autometer was looking after the AFR.

[5_Liter_Eater]

Over the weekend I replaced my AEM with the MTX-L. I replaced the AEM because the analog outuput was not reliable as mentioned above. It would shift from day to day and I would have to re-do the offset and/or slope but towards the end I noticed that the output was not even linear (sometimes). I got fed up with it and decided to try the MTX-L mainly because I wanted a gauge type WB to fill the hole im my pillar pod that the AEM left and also because of price point ($189 shipped from Amazon).

I installed it the same was the AEM was, with the power from the alternator via a relay and ground to body. I have one analog output going to my Aeroforce Interceptor and the other to the AC pressure for piping into HPT. I set up the transfer function in the Aeroforce exactly as it should be based on how I have the MTX configured and it matched up exactly with the display on the MTX across the AFR range from 9.9:1 to 22.4. I didn't have to mess with ground offset at all. I have not hooked up HPT yet so I'll review on that later.

There are several features I like about the MTX:

I like that it will read all the way down into the 7's because my target WOT AFR is 11.5 and the AEM would only go down to 10. When I first started spraying meth I was likely richer than 10 in spots but I wouldn't have known it with the AEM since it would not go lower than 10.

Free air calibration. This was not an option with the AEM.

I like that the outputs are configurable. By default one reads from ~7.3 to ~22.3 and the other emulated nerst cell but I can configure them both however I like. I will likely set them both to read 8-18 across the 5V range to gain a little resolution. Also, if I wanted to verify that the Aeroforce and HPT are seeing what the MTX says its putting out I can set the outputs to flatline at a certain voltage and see if they match.

I like that stoich is configurable. Most wide bands are hard coded to show lambda as 14.7 but with the MTX I can set it, so I have set it at 14.2 to account for the ~10% ethanol blend in today's pumps. If I want to run E85 I could change the value again and still tune in terms of AFR instead of lambda.

The gauge's LEDs and LCD are configurable and independent of the analog outputs. The LEDs sweep from green to yellow to red. I can tell it I want green to represent 10-12 AFR, yellow 12-13 and red 13+.

I've always steered clear of the Innovate products because I judged they have a reputation for not being reliable but no one has really tried the MTX so I decided to giev it a shot. Only time will tell if it proves reliable.

[07MontRedcp]

Nice writeup Bill. Thanks.

BJK

[LSxpwrdZ]

Nice! Keep us posted on how you like it!

[Bills96TA]

I just bought and installed one in my Procharger Avalanche as well. It seemed like a nice setup and was easy to install. My only issue is the gauge seems to be a little off from my HPtuners, did you have this issue? How in the heck do you check both at the same time with them switching so fast.

Over the weekend I replaced my AEM with the MTX-L. I replaced the AEM because the analog outuput was not reliable as mentioned above. It would shift from day to day and I would have to re-do the offset and/or slope but towards the end I noticed that the output was not even linear (sometimes). I got fed up with it and decided to try the MTX-L mainly because I wanted a gauge type WB to fill the hole im my pillar pod that the AEM left and also because of price point ($189 shipped from Amazon).

I installed it the same was the AEM was, with the power from the alternator via a relay and ground to body. I have one analog output going to my Aeroforce Interceptor and the other to the AC pressure for piping into HPT. I set up the transfer function in the Aeroforce exactly as it should be based on how I have the MTX configured and it matched up exactly with the display on the MTX across the AFR range from 9.9:1 to 22.4. I didn't have to mess with ground offset at all. I have not hooked up HPT yet so I'll review on that later.

There are several features I like about the MTX:

I like that it will read all the way down into the 7's because my target WOT AFR is 11.5 and the AEM would only go down to 10. When I first started spraying meth I was likely richer than 10 in spots but I wouldn't have known it with the AEM since it would not go lower than 10.

Free air calibration. This was not an option with the AEM.

I like that the outputs are configurable. By default one reads from ~7.3 to ~22.3 and the other emulated nerst cell but I can configure them both however I like. I will likely set them both to read 8-18 across the 5V range to gain a little resolution. Also, if I wanted to verify that the Aeroforce and HPT are seeing what the MTX says its putting out I can set the outputs to flatline at a certain voltage and see if they match.

I like that stoich is configurable. Most wide bands are hard coded to show lambda as 14.7 but with the MTX I can set it, so I have set it at 14.2 to account for the ~10% ethanol blend in today's pumps. If I want to run E85 I could change the value again and still tune in terms of AFR instead of lambda.

The gauge's LEDs and LCD are configurable and independent of the analog outputs. The LEDs sweep from green to yellow to red. I can tell it I want green to represent 10-12 AFR, yellow 12-13 and red 13+.

I've always steered clear of the Innovate products because I judged they have a reputation for not being reliable but no one has really tried the MTX so I decided to giev it a shot. Only time will tell if it proves reliable.

[5_Liter_Eater]

My ground offset was off a little, yes. Take digital pictures of the gauge and the laptop. Put the car in open loop with VCM Controls to keep it from changing so quickly.

[CTX-SLPR]

To bring this back because it's been a great read but I have a quextion I don't think is really covered.

What is the best stand alone unit with no gauge? I'm going to be using an Aeroforce Interceptor and I don't have room for another gauge or box like the AFX comes with. I'd rather not buy something with a display box only to hide it under the dash, the glove box is already full of radio, and the ashtray is where the Interceptor goes.

Leaning towards the AEM UEGO since it's stand alone only and sounds more reliable than the LC-1's. Any help?

Thanks,

[LSxpwrdZ]

I would run a Haltech wideband! I run one of them in my Camaro full time and for the money it can't be beat. It's just as accurate as my NGK is. It also control's 2 sensors and the control box is tiny in size. It does have free air calibration as well. I'm not certain if it's got capability to read NTK sensors or not but mine came with 2 bosch and they are doing fine. I put my NGK in the exhaust with the Haltech and it was reading identical values through my scanner through the EIO of the interface. It's got individual 0-5v outputs for each sensor. They also sale a gauge for it or you can obviously hook it up to your programmable gauge. My only beef with it is the instruction's don't show the afr to voltage transfer function but luckly my buddies work for Haltech America and I got the info from them. 0v=10afr 5v=20afr with 14.70 as stoich. I configured mine to read lambda in my scanner however.