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Thread: Throttle Position vs Pedal Position vs Roots S/C vacuum operated bypass valve

  1. #1
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    Throttle Position vs Pedal Position vs Roots S/C vacuum operated bypass valve

    I have posted a few times about my 2009 Dodge Challenger 6.1 Auto which has an Edelbrock E-Force supercharger.

    Ever since I installed the S/C several years ago, I've noticed an odd behavior from the car. Car runs great for WOT, but for mild part throttle acceleration, there is an issue. Under mild acceleration from a stop, let's say accelerator pedal position is held steady at around 1.3V and TPS at 1.2V the car accelerates slowly, around 86kPA on the MAP for example, say 20MPH and climbing, I notice that there's a point where suddenly the TPS unexpectedly ramps up to 2.8V, the MAP goes up to 100+kPA accordingly (note: the pedal hasn't moved, still at 1.3V)...so clearly the throttle blade has opened a large amount, enough to increase the air pressure in the S/C intake throat which triggers the S/C bypass vacuum operated actuator to extend, and close the bypass valve and put the S/C into full operation, and thus the manifold is essentially into full boost thru the S/C. The timing pulls way back (I suppose that's a VERY good thing) otherwise the car would produce allot of torque and accelerate unexpectedly. There's nothing dangerous about how the car behaves, but the part-throttle behavior is sluggish and difficult to manage with the accelerator pedal.

    I've read some posts about issues with tuning HEMIs and bypass valves, and issues that the bypass valve is essentially not under our control. It would seem that we should have control of the throttle position, albeit indirectly through the pedal input, but I can't find how the tune controls the throttle position actuator or which variables to study. One post I read talks about pedal input = torque demand, which is sent to another lookup to find the right pedal position, but it was for later model HEMI's and mine is the older NGC4 controller, so the info in that post was not similar enough for mine to give me enough help to figure out how to adjust mine.

    My question is, is there a problem with the tune? Is there a fix? I only notice and get annoyed, because I have a very similar setup on my Chevy SS 6.2 LS3 with Whipple, and there is no non-linear behavior on its throttle position like this at all.

    log file attached, see time marker 07:33 for a pretty good example of the TPS deviating from pedal position.

    Thanks so much, in advance, for any assistance.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by ngc1068; 08-11-2023 at 01:17 PM.
    2016 Chevy SS Sedan M6 SBE LS3, Whipple 2.9L, 3.625 upper/stock lower pulleys for 9.5psi, TSP Stg 3 SC Cam, ID 1050x injectors, LS7 MAF, DSX Aux Pump, DSX Flex Fuel Sensor
    2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8, 6.1 HEMI, Edelbrock E-Force TVS-2300, 9psi

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner PurpleRam's Avatar
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    I would look at your Airflow table , there's a few threads about run away Throttle bodies.
    04 GTX........ 8.91@151mph 392Ci G3Hemi NA 3600lbs 2.6HP/CI Naturally Aspirated
    05 GTxtreme 9:45@142mph 426Ci G3Hemi NA 4000lbs
    G3 Hemi Videos

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClS...5mXdDR5sOxs10Q

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleRam View Post
    I would look at your Airflow table , there's a few threads about run away Throttle bodies.
    Hi, and thank you for the advice. I've looked at those tables, I just don't see anything unusual, do you think these tables are way off base?

    Screenshot 2023-08-12 084728.png
    Last edited by ngc1068; 08-13-2023 at 04:15 PM.
    2016 Chevy SS Sedan M6 SBE LS3, Whipple 2.9L, 3.625 upper/stock lower pulleys for 9.5psi, TSP Stg 3 SC Cam, ID 1050x injectors, LS7 MAF, DSX Aux Pump, DSX Flex Fuel Sensor
    2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8, 6.1 HEMI, Edelbrock E-Force TVS-2300, 9psi

  4. #4
    first your tables of tp needs tweaks the wot pt must be matched with wot pt on the throttle page pedal wot and throttle wot also your expected pedal tables MUST be the inverse of the Pedal Power Request table. and i see your numbers there are low ,

    tweak that and you will get even better response

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeForce1986 View Post
    first your tables of tp needs tweaks the wot pt must be matched with wot pt on the throttle page pedal wot and throttle wot also your expected pedal tables MUST be the inverse of the Pedal Power Request table. and i see your numbers there are low ,

    tweak that and you will get even better response
    Wow, thank you SO much for this advice, you are amazing! I corrected those tables (I won't say what famous person this tune came from), and its like night and day. Again, thanks so much.
    2016 Chevy SS Sedan M6 SBE LS3, Whipple 2.9L, 3.625 upper/stock lower pulleys for 9.5psi, TSP Stg 3 SC Cam, ID 1050x injectors, LS7 MAF, DSX Aux Pump, DSX Flex Fuel Sensor
    2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8, 6.1 HEMI, Edelbrock E-Force TVS-2300, 9psi

  6. #6
    Advanced Tuner PurpleRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeForce1986 View Post
    first your tables of tp needs tweaks the wot pt must be matched with wot pt on the throttle page pedal wot and throttle wot also your expected pedal tables MUST be the inverse of the Pedal Power Request table. and i see your numbers there are low ,

    tweak that and you will get even better response
    Can you explain what you mean by tables of pt and WOT pt ? You’re correct about expected & power request tables ,
    04 GTX........ 8.91@151mph 392Ci G3Hemi NA 3600lbs 2.6HP/CI Naturally Aspirated
    05 GTxtreme 9:45@142mph 426Ci G3Hemi NA 4000lbs
    G3 Hemi Videos

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClS...5mXdDR5sOxs10Q