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Thread: CTSV - Bank 1 lean/Bank 2 rich? Not sure what to check Next!

  1. #1
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    CTSV - Bank 1 lean/Bank 2 rich? Not sure what to check Next!

    Greetings and thanks for any help given!

    Car has started breaking up under WOT and progressively gotten worse. Bank 1 goes very lean and Bank 2 is showing rich:
    Wide band is also on Bank 1 but discovered an exhaust leak on the o2 bung so not trusting it till I can get it re-welded
    What I have tried so far:
    New plugs TR7IX gap .35
    New plug wires AC Delco OEM
    New Bank 1 o2 sensor ( found burn marks on previous sensors wire extension, so replaced it)
    Tested exhaust system for leaks - discovered one on the WB o2 bung and very small one right past my narrow band. Unsure it its enough to cause issues.
    No leaks detected on the headers (SW long tubes)
    Ran car at idle and sprayed down intake manifold area and injector o-ring area - no change in idle
    Used Stethoscope to listen to injectors firing and can hear them clicking consistently
    Swapped cylinder 1 and 5 coils with 2 and 6 - no change
    Tested 12v power to all coil packs and it's present
    Tested coil packs were firing with plug light
    Checked spark off coil pack and it's white ( under assumption it should be blue = weak coil? )
    Checked grounds on back of LSA heads and they are secure, no corrosion. Ran a jumper cable from frame to back of block and no change. Not a ground issue.
    No vacuum leaks detected

    Running the car in OL/SD to take the o2 control out of it.

    Log is attached.

    Any ideas on where to go next?
    Thanks
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    Last edited by S1RGrayBeard; 08-30-2023 at 03:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    I'd like to see what it does back in closed loop, specifically if the trims and O2s go opposite each other.

  3. #3
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    Here you go, no other changes besides re-enabling the o2's
    Bank 1 does not go dead lean which is nice but the banks seem to stay about a 10% variance between them and the STFT do go opposite (about 3 mins in). Just an idle and about 25% throttle log.

    Open to suggestions and I appreciate the help, spinning my wheels here.
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  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner PGA2B's Avatar
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    Get the leak fixed first. I had a very small leak in my Driver side header connection, and I would show 10-20% lean.
    Your Bank 2 is trying to compensate for the lean bank 1.
    2013 OBM A6 CTS-V Coupe
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  5. #5
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Are LT trims turned off, or just not being logged? If they're active but not logged, the ST trims alone are not really useful. Posting the tune file doesn't always solve everything, but not posting one cuts your odds way down to the point you might as well skip posting the thread and just make a wild guess.

  6. #6
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    LT's are enabled

    Tune attached.

    Thanks!
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  7. #7
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    That file has LTFT enabled only above 300*F.

    If this thing is modified enough to need 185lb injectors, maybe it would be wise to mention what all is done to it. Not listing how it differs from stock leads to the assumption that nothing or not much has been changed. This is not a fun game to play.

  8. #8
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    Sorry Squirrel, not trying to be mysterious:
    416 ci
    Callie Stroker crank and rods
    LS9 head gaskets
    Diamond pistons 10:1 compression
    ARP hardware
    LSA heads Ported
    BTR stg 3 torque cam
    BTR springs
    Trunion kit
    Nick Williams 103 TB
    OEM coil packs
    TR7ix plugs gap .35
    AC Delco OEM wires
    1.9L Charger Ported/Reinforced brick/ZL1 lid
    Ported snout
    2.45 Upper pulley/ 9.5 Lower pulley
    1700cc FIC injectors
    Billet Rails
    Twin in tank AEM 320's
    DSX Aux 320 kit
    SW Long tubes
    3" Borla exhaust/X pipe
    Weapon X heat Xchange
    BeCool Trans cooler
    5 Gallon Ice tank to Charger 3/4 lines

    Trans Upgrades with Circle D converter and GPZ clutches
    Other misc stuff but shouldn't affect motor.
    Last edited by S1RGrayBeard; 08-30-2023 at 08:44 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    .035 is too much plug gap. And I'm not a fan of projected tip plugs in higher boost engines. Put some NGK BR7EFs in it and you're breaking up problem will most likely go away.

    It does look like you may have a miss on bank one anyway.

    PS that is some overly aggressive idle spark control. You could smooth that idle out quite a bit by taming that down.
    Last edited by edcmat-l1; 08-31-2023 at 06:31 AM.

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  10. #10
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    Thanks for taking a look edcmat-l1, I do plan on smoothing out the idle spark control once I get a bit farther into the tune. I ran the BR7's previously and have just switched over to the Tr7's, haven't really been able to run them due to the misfire issue so jury was still out. Any idea on how to isolate the source of the misfire as I agree it's on bank 1 but I haven't been able to tell where, plugs all look the same and swapping coil packs hasn't changed anything. I used an IR gun on my individual headers but not detecting any significant variance on heat to show a cold cylinder. Any other suggestions are welcome, thanks.

  11. #11
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    GM coils very rarely go bad.

    Get a new set of BR7EFs and put them in.

    Good choice sticking with AC Delco wires.

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  12. #12
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    I'd like to see another log with you actually driving the car.

    The wideband is reporting impossibly lean numbers. Is it near a open tail pipe? Open exhaust?

    Are you 100% sure the o2's aren't plugged into the wrong bank. It happens way more often than you think on trucks, trailblazers, etc. I've not seen anyone make that mistake on a CTSV
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    That file has LTFT enabled only above 300*F.

    If this thing is modified enough to need 185lb injectors, maybe it would be wise to mention what all is done to it. Not listing how it differs from stock leads to the assumption that nothing or not much has been changed. This is not a fun game to play.
    pretty sure that table isn't the one enabling/disabling CL, I believe it's the table just below that one 12461 "ect vs. startup ect"

  14. #14
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    Yeah usually it's o2 readiness vs ECT.

    Its common practice to disable LTFT on supercharged cars.
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  15. #15
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    Hey everyone, thanks for the suggestions.
    I bought a set of the BR7EF's this morning and will change them out shortly.. recommended plug gap? .30 work?

    Alvin, I had found a pin hole size air leak on the WB o2 bung that was welded to my exhaust. I have plugged that his morning with some good ole JB high heat and see if that gives me an actual accurate reading. If it does I am going to go ahead and scrap these Borla pipes and order a new exhaust, been wanting to anyways so this will give me a good reason.

    Once plug change and o2 weld is set, I will pull another idle log and then driving log for you. Just a light cruise around the neighborhood.

    Thanks again, get back to you shortly.

  16. #16
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1RGrayBeard View Post
    Hey everyone, thanks for the suggestions.
    I bought a set of the BR7EF's this morning and will change them out shortly.. recommended plug gap? .30 work?

    Alvin, I had found a pin hole size air leak on the WB o2 bung that was welded to my exhaust. I have plugged that his morning with some good ole JB high heat and see if that gives me an actual accurate reading. If it does I am going to go ahead and scrap these Borla pipes and order a new exhaust, been wanting to anyways so this will give me a good reason.

    Once plug change and o2 weld is set, I will pull another idle log and then driving log for you. Just a light cruise around the neighborhood.

    Thanks again, get back to you shortly.
    Put the plugs in the way they come out of the box. They're roughly .025. Don't make them any wider.

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  17. #17
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    You are correct sir! I came in here to edit that comment after realizing they are measuring .26 out the box with my feeler gauges! I am just gonna let them ride after confirming each is the same.

    Thanks again!

  18. #18
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    Update.
    Swapped in the new plugs and o2's were still running opposite of each other with bank 1 running very lean. I compression checked the motor next and all cylinders are within range of each other.
    I next decided to swap injectors, I had previously used a test light to confirm power/ground and let the motor run and was getting a ground pulse signal to the injector. I can hear all the pins clicking inside the injectors and cylinder 1 specifically. Decided to swap the Cyl 1 and Cyl 3 injector anyways to 100% eliminate it as an issue and see if the misfire followed. I cleaned the injectors on bank 1 before swapping and attached the log after. The o2's are no longer running opposite and the fuel trims are staying much closer to each other. Is there an acceptable variance between banks with STFT's?

    Bumped VE up 20% to get out of lean readings, other than that no change to the previous tune.

    Thank!
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