2015 Ram 1500 no start when VVT enabled, disabled starts fine

[PurpleRam]

When I get home I’ll take a look

[Wayne Presley]

what type of mods did you have to do to add the wide band sensors to your 2011 NGC4A controller?????

and why do you think it is pulling 12 degrees of timing outta it when ya stab it???

It doesn't have wideband sensors and I wish I knew why it was pulling so much timing.

When I get home I’ll take a look

Thank you

[Spray-Cam Hell-Ram]

If VVT is enabled, and a limiter is installed, and your VVT oil solenoid mounted there in the valley between the intake ports for bank 1 and bank 2, just behind the cam phaser is in working order/operational, and has not failed, and the cam phaser itself, too, is in working order (neither of the two pins holding the wound up spring inside the phaser's casing is sheared off and the spring has not unwound itself....then your cam phaser should absolutely be dancing back and forth and changing the cam's position within a 14 degree range. Have you gone under the hood with another on the pedal and tried to see if you could hear the cam phaser moving around? If anything, you shouldn't least be hearing a very distinct clicking sound coming from the phaser. If you don't hear anything, go through and verify that everything mentioned above is in working order. But being completely honest with you here... I suspect that you won't hear any clicking sound when you check, and you'll probably come to find that all the parts listed above are in working order as well. And the reason that I say this is because, everything that Im seeing is pointing all fingers to your cam phaser being locked in place. Ans i know you mentioned in a previous post when another said this that "there is definitely a phaser installed". I was going to reply to that post just after you posted it but I got called away at that time and never got a chance. And I was going to reply saying, well yes, I have no doubt that you have a phaser installed, because if you didn't, then you would have yet to even have a chance to start the motor, or really have any possible way to install your timing chain if getting technical here. Lol. My point is, for your application, a phaser is installed no matter what, whether you are planning to use VVT or not. It's what little parts you end up installing into the back of your phaser, that will dictate the use of VVT or not. These little parts in these limiter and lockout aren't all that dissimilar, so it's very possible that there could be some kind of misunderstanding or miscommunication between yourself and the previous owner or builder about exactly what little parts were installed into the back of the phaser, prior to installing the phaser and putting the rest all back together. See if they put a small block or wedge with a tensioning set screw on its face in one of the chambers or if slightly different style parts were installed, and if so, what did they look like exactly. Based on your comment there, I think it might be worth double checking to see what their answer to this question is. On a different note, were those your timing tables you were using and seeing knock or did i give you/change the spark tables? If I did, that was my fault anmd the tables will need adjustment down roughly 4 degrees from the 5th column all the way to the last column and from top to bottom. I have a high compression stroker on race gas so my timing will be able to run a bit higher perhaps than yours.

[Wayne Presley]

If VVT is enabled, and a limiter is installed, and your VVT oil solenoid mounted there in the valley between the intake ports for bank 1 and bank 2, just behind the cam phaser is in working order/operational, and has not failed, and the cam phaser itself, too, is in working order (neither of the two pins holding the wound up spring inside the phaser's casing is sheared off and the spring has not unwound itself....then your cam phaser should absolutely be dancing back and forth and changing the cam's position within a 14 degree range. Have you gone under the hood with another on the pedal and tried to see if you could hear the cam phaser moving around? If anything, you shouldn't least be hearing a very distinct clicking sound coming from the phaser. If you don't hear anything, go through and verify that everything mentioned above is in working order. But being completely honest with you here... I suspect that you won't hear any clicking sound when you check, and you'll probably come to find that all the parts listed above are in working order as well. And the reason that I say this is because, everything that Im seeing is pointing all fingers to your cam phaser being locked in place. Ans i know you mentioned in a previous post when another said this that "there is definitely a phaser installed". I was going to reply to that post just after you posted it but I got called away at that time and never got a chance. And I was going to reply saying, well yes, I have no doubt that you have a phaser installed, because if you didn't, then you would have yet to even have a chance to start the motor, or really have any possible way to install your timing chain if getting technical here. Lol. My point is, for your application, a phaser is installed no matter what, whether you are planning to use VVT or not. It's what little parts you end up installing into the back of your phaser, that will dictate the use of VVT or not. These little parts in these limiter and lockout aren't all that dissimilar, so it's very possible that there could be some kind of misunderstanding or miscommunication between yourself and the previous owner or builder about exactly what little parts were installed into the back of the phaser, prior to installing the phaser and putting the rest all back together. See if they put a small block or wedge with a tensioning set screw on its face in one of the chambers or if slightly different style parts were installed, and if so, what did they look like exactly. Based on your comment there, I think it might be worth double checking to see what their answer to this question is. On a different note, were those your timing tables you were using and seeing knock or did i give you/change the spark tables? If I did, that was my fault anmd the tables will need adjustment down roughly 4 degrees from the 5th column all the way to the last column and from top to bottom. I have a high compression stroker on race gas so my timing will be able to run a bit higher perhaps than yours.

The logs are from you tune (VVTtest4-SprayCam-edit-for-VVT-Enabled-&-Alternate-suggested-Inputs-for-Entire-Tune-Rev1.hpt ) with some mods to the VE table. I have pulled some timing out and the truck is running 87 octane. Will I hear the phaser or the OCV clicking? Am I logging the correct OCV duty cycle? Overall the truck runs pretty good but I know the cam isn't optimum. I want to make the cam is correctly set up in HPT and it is a mechanical/wiring issue before I give it back for him to pull the timing cover again.
Thank you for looking at this

[Wayne Presley]

Also would you happen to know which pins are AD 1, AD 2 and ground on the MPVI3

PinOutMPVI3.png

1 top left
2 top right
3 bottom left
4 bottom right
5 outer ring

[rays04gtx]

one thing I've learned from working at Comp for 20 years , Not every box is what it's seams...... Customer may have bought a Limiter but got a Locker ,

Looking at the tune, my money is on the cam is in correct and it has a LOCKER not a limiter.

Definitely need customer to anti up for a 180 T-stat , Ambient air is almost 100F, where are you located ? judging from the Baro reading you're about 500 above Sea level.

can't run this truck on 87 OCT now,

[Wayne Presley]

I am 360 feet above sea level in Lower Alabama . He watched the CompCams limiter video and he says that is what he put in. I think it should run the 93 octane also.
Ray, SprayCam and Purple, do you see any reason the cam isn;t moving and why the commanded AFR goes richer than PE at 4000 ish RPM

[PurpleRam]

I am 360 feet above sea level in Lower Alabama . He watched the CompCams limiter video and he says that is what he put in. I think it should run the 93 octane also.
Ray, SprayCam and Purple, do you see any reason the cam isn;t moving and why the commanded AFR goes richer than PE at 4000 ish RPM

I didn't get back till late, I'm going to do a video reply tonight , it's easier to go into some of it that way.

I pulled the tune I posted emailer going to replace it with one that's designed for 85/87 OCT

The Richer thing is most likely a cat issue, also I think you have(customer has) a Injector on the Drivers bank that's weak or clogged .

[PurpleRam]

Also would you happen to know which pins are AD 1, AD 2 and ground on the MPVI3

PinOutMPVI3.png

1 top left
2 top right
3 bottom left
4 bottom right
5 outer ring

I have no clue myself, still using MPVI2 , file a help ticket with HPT , those guys really do their best to get stuff solved , I'm sure they would like a smiple question to answer for once.

[PurpleRam]

Here's a tune designed for 87OCT , it's based on one I did for a RC4x2, being this truck you're working on is 4x4 QC , we might want to pull a few more Degrees WOT , but lets load it and look at the logs see if it pulls any Timing,

One of the things I change between your tune and this one is when PE starts Your tune brings it in @ 2.9v I dropped it down to 1.625, again after next log we'll look and maybe raise it to 1.9-2v a lot depends on end user's driving habits.

Add engine Run time to the next set of logs and I'll show you a trick on the VE tuning.

Your customer is going to have to swap over to a 180F T-stat, a lot of the focus of the Video is at the 2080 RPM area, and the truck is 210F @ that point, too hot for this size of a truck with a cam.... which is one of the reasons it wants to pull timing and run those cats above 1700F.

Looking at the 2nd Log, some of that fueling is coming in from CAT protection.

In this tune I posted, I lowered the stoich value from your.0710 to stockish .0694, reason for that is, it'll make getting Speed Density tuning done easier and faster. Next Video I'll go into some steps on making it easier to SD tune.

Also, there are some Tranny mods in this tune which will help with some of the timing issues, looking at these two logs it's building up Load quicker than it should going from PT to WOT, a lot of that is how the trans shifts, RFE's are not known for their user-friendly shift schedules.

I should have some time tomorrow to get into some other things.


https://youtu.be/HHwjI5if7ts

[Wayne Presley]

Here's a tune designed for 87OCT , it's based on one I did for a RC4x2, being this truck you're working on is 4x4 QC , we might want to pull a few more Degrees WOT , but lets load it and look at the logs see if it pulls any Timing,

One of the things I change between your tune and this one is when PE starts Your tune brings it in @ 2.9v I dropped it down to 1.625, again after next log we'll look and maybe raise it to 1.9-2v a lot depends on end user's driving habits.

Add engine Run time to the next set of logs and I'll show you a trick on the VE tuning.

Your customer is going to have to swap over to a 180F T-stat, a lot of the focus of the Video is at the 2080 RPM area, and the truck is 210F @ that point, too hot for this size of a truck with a cam.... which is one of the reasons it wants to pull timing and run those cats above 1700F.

Looking at the 2nd Log, some of that fueling is coming in from CAT protection.

In this tune I posted, I lowered the stoich value from your.0710 to stockish .0694, reason for that is, it'll make getting Speed Density tuning done easier and faster. Next Video I'll go into some steps on making it easier to SD tune.

Also, there are some Tranny mods in this tune which will help with some of the timing issues, looking at these two logs it's building up Load quicker than it should going from PT to WOT, a lot of that is how the trans shifts, RFE's are not known for their user-friendly shift schedules.

I should have some time tomorrow to get into some other things.


https://youtu.be/HHwjI5if7ts

Here is the tune from yesterday and the log from it. I got rid of the COT fueling issue and currently have no knock. I have the SD table fairly happy with WOT set to 12.4 with the wideband and the total trims about -3 to +3 peaks.

SDtune8.hpt
WB4.hpl

I'll try your tune and log it with engine run time added

[PurpleRam]

you're headed in a good direction, this last log has it running around 12.5AFR in WOT, too lean for the Eagle 5.7 pre-eagle yes .

Eagle heads need to run a little fatter/richer due to the quench flats .

Also I set up that tune to allow the cam to swing, that should settle it once and for all if it's limited or locked, My gut says it's locked, and Comp shipped him a locker and not a phaser.

[Wayne Presley]

you're headed in a good direction, this last log has it running around 12.5AFR in WOT, too lean for the Eagle 5.7 pre-eagle yes .

Eagle heads need to run a little fatter/richer due to the quench flats .

Also I set up that tune to allow the cam to swing, that should settle it once and for all if it's limited or locked, My gut says it's locked, and Comp shipped him a locker and not a phaser.

PurpleRam,
the 87 octane tune you attached has the VVT disabled

[PurpleRam]

PurpleRam,
the 87 octane tune you attached has the VVT disabled

My bad just switch to disable and forget what I wrote , the cam is locked.

[LilSick]

anyone throw a wheel and a indicator on a stock 5.7 or 6.4 and check exhaust centerline with the phaser at full advance???

pcm says 125 134 but has anyone verified that?

[PurpleRam]

anyone throw a wheel and a indicator on a stock 5.7 or 6.4 and check exhaust centerline with the phaser at full advance???

pcm says 125 134 but has anyone verified that?

yes....still looking for that video , I just can't find it......I will make it a point to redo it by Mid Oct, broke my dam iPhone today , need to actually get a camera

[LilSick]

perfect timing

apple released a titanium 15 today

[PurpleRam]

perfect timing

apple released a titanium 15 today

I'm more of an SE guy I'm not in to the bells whistles , my personal phone is an older At&t Flip

[LilSick]

special education?

jk

: )

[Wayne Presley]

Here's the last tune, AFR at WOT was 12.3, starts and idles great, no knock and pulls great to 6000

SDtune9B.hpt