Demo version

[pknowles]

I thought there was a demo version to download off the web but I can't find it. I have someone who wants to look at HPT.

[Bill@HPTuners]

No full on demo...just the help file www.hptuners.com/help with the flash demo's Scott(soundengineer) & I have made up within them http://www.hptuners.com/help/getting_started_demos.htm

[5_Liter_Eater]

I honestly think a demo version would help sell a lot more copies. I almost went with EFI Live because of it. Should be easy enough to put out a copy that cannot be registered to any VIN.

[12secSS]

Every professional software I have dealt with (costing well over $10K for one license/seat), has never offered a demo version, nor will they. In my opinion, what is the point? If you have never dealt with what the software offers, how can just getting a free sample/demo of the software offer any insight on how productive it is? You would need to know what you are doing first to fully evaluate the software. In my (daytime) profession, you need to be trained in the design principles first and foremost, the software is all pretty much identical. All you really need to learn is where they have the similar options and what terminology they use versus the competitor. Same case with tuning software, even stand alones. They are all the same, just the layout and titles differ. I don't see how that is a major selling point, as the other guys will lead some to believe. The software is only as powerful as the user, which applies to A LOT of other "tools". The best bet would be to sit down with a competent user of the software and have them give you a tour of the utilities and how they work. Just my thoughts.

[Bill@HPTuners]

I think efilive came out with one because they initially had no other selling points since they were the the "new kid on the block", more expensive & offered less...they are no longer the new kid on the block, but are still more expensive & still offer less lol. Don't get me wrong I think a demo would sway those that are on the fence that like the "try it before you buy it" type of deal, but other than that I think they've done pretty well without one up to this point. Maybe I'll bug Keith about it to see what he can come up with.

[pknowles]

I think efilive came out with one because they initially had no other selling points since they were the the "new kid on the block", more expensive & offered less...they are no longer the new kid on the block, but are still more expensive & still offer less lol. Don't get me wrong I think a demo would sway those that are on the fence that like the "try it before you buy it" type of deal, but other than that I think they've done pretty well without one up to this point. Maybe I'll bug Keith about it to see what he can come up with.

All you really have to do for a demo version is to disable the save and don't have it link up with a cable. I would think that would be quick and easy, but I'm not the one who would be doing it.

[Bill@HPTuners]

All you really have to do for a demo version is to disable the save and don't have it link up with a cable. I would think that would be quick and easy, but I'm not the one who would be doing it.

Neither am I so im not exactly sure what would be involved security wise...because to be able to even USE hpt to view a file you need an application key...if its as simple as setting up a dummy application key that would be simple, BUT who knows what that opens them up to security wise so im not sure if thats something they want to do.

[Country Boy]

I was just going to ask this. Im in a discussion on another forum and people like how you can demo EFI. It gets you accuainted with the software before you use it. People are really nervous about turning a car in the first place since you can blow your shit up with the wrong move.

About the $10k software... youre average joe doesnt buy that kind of software. People that already know what theyre doing buy that stuff. Not youre average hobbiest.

[MeentSS02]

Having demo software back in the day when I started tuning would have done nothing for me...I had no idea what I was looking at or what I was doing...I don't generally learn much by just looking at things and messing with arbitrary numbers.

If people are nervous about tuning a car, they should be...you can easily mess stuff up if you don't know what you are doing. I'd never recommend ANY tuning software to someone unless they were willing to take that risk, and willing to invest the hours learning on forums like these. There is a ton of information out there that many people are too lazy to look at. Everyone wants a good tune, but few are willing to put in the man-hours it takes to have one.

Okay...I'll stop ranting.

[Bill@HPTuners]

About the $10k software... youre average joe doesnt buy that kind of software. People that already know what theyre doing buy that stuff. Not youre average hobbiest.

Your average Joe really didnt buy tuning software either up until 2-3 years ago

Like I said I'll bug Keith about it to see if theres a viable option for this in the near future, because I do see it as a selling point especially to people on the fence. But like Steve said it doesnt really help you in any way...for instance efilive's demo wont allow you to setup a custom operating system to see the extra tables that your getting...and I honestly don't think if we came out with a demo it would allow you to setup a custom OS either...might be something you'd just have to find to view.

All your really getting out of it is being able to push buttons, but you really don't get anything out of it other than that...all of the descriptions of parameters & such is right in the help file & we have demos already made up for many different things that will help you far more than pushing buttons.

[Country Boy]

but all that info is pointless if you cant compare it to something visually. With a demo version, you can follow along with what people are talking about when you talk about VE tables, HO timin, LO timing, IFR tables, etc.. I used to play with the demo all the time to get a feel for it before I bought HPT... ironic huh?

[Bill@HPTuners]

Everyone wants a good tune, but few are willing to put in the man-hours it takes to have one.

Yeah in the end thats what it comes down to is reading & applying...knowing what to scan & why. The editor/scanner packages available right now are so advanced anything is possible now in reality.

You'll get out of it whatever you put into it.

[5_Liter_Eater]

I started purking in these forums well before I bought HPT. If I had a demo version, demo flash and demo log I could have followed along better. Come to think of it I can't see much harm in releasing the full blown version as a free download. It would get a lot of exposure and would do no good (to someone being malicious) without a cable and licenses. The one risk is that it would put it in many more hands, some of which might be more prone to try to hack into the license algorithm, but there is nothing to prevent someone from posting the MSI on bittorrent or the like right now. I do certainly see HPT being leery of hackers and if they think that risk outweighs the benefits then that is up to them.

Neat discussion though.

[12secSS]

Thank you Steve, exactly my point.

Following along with someone online and getting "acquainted" with the layout of the software is one thing, knowing how the vehicle reacts to those changes is like comparing apples to donkeys. Viewing tables will not help you undertsand why some cams need less RAF and how much. The demo wouldn't come with a cable to download your tune either. Unless you guys know something I don't (possible). It is like test driving the new ZO6 by reading the brochure ... yeah I can tell by reading this that the ZO6 can handle my local twisties. :yeah: If you use common sense, you will not blow stuff up, that statement of possibly blowing stuff up comes from either tuners that do not want Joe Public to learn that they hacked their tune, or are the kind that talk in terms like "3/4 race cams". The only way you can really blow your car/engine up is if you divide/multiply any of the fuel tables by a huge amount or drastically alter any important table with no regard to the outcome. I paid $31K off the showroom floor for my 2001 SS brand spanking new, I hopped on the HPTuners band wagon when it was just a kiddie wagon, yet I did not change settings by blindly making huge changes. I made educated, yet responsible changes, as I did not want to ruin my pride and joy. Most enthusiast are like that, willing to modify their pride and joy, yet do not want to damage it. I am not against HPT putting out a demo, but to just put it out because so and so has one is not a good reason or method of putting one out. I am sure the three amigos will figure out a great solution for this, one which I am sure will "revolutionize" the market again.

Happy tuning!

Edit: I think the demos Bill and Scott came up with are great additions and solve the demo version dilema quite nicely, with explanations of how/why.

[DSSA]

Every professional software I have dealt with (costing well over $10K for one license/seat), has never offered a demo version, nor will they. In my opinion, what is the point?

You're kidding, right? Speedpro, Haltech, AEM, Tune Edit, and a slew of other tuning software companies all have demo versions on their programs.

If you have never dealt with what the software offers, how can just getting a free sample/demo of the software offer any insight on how productive it is? You would need to know what you are doing first to fully evaluate the software.

It tells me a lot. How are the menus laid out? Is there a lot of useless crap to navagate through that you won't use (AEM for example)? Is it archaic in design akin to the older Haltech software? Are the quickkeys laid out decently? Does it have global adjustments? I could go on for an hour with this list.

In my (daytime) profession, you need to be trained in the design principles first and foremost, the software is all pretty much identical. All you really need to learn is where they have the similar options and what terminology they use versus the competitor. Same case with tuning software, even stand alones. They are all the same, just the layout and titles differ.

With stock ECM editing software, yes, they're all working with the same ECM hardware to edit. However, not all have the same abilities, options, and ease of use (layout). If that statement were correct, no one would use Motec units at outrageous sums of money as an entrance fee---we'd all be more then happy with a vintage E6S Haltech and DOS software for $1000, or even more archaic Mega-Squirt.

I don't see how that is a major selling point, as the other guys will lead some to believe. The software is only as powerful as the user, which applies to A LOT of other "tools".

Yes, the software is only as powerful as the user. I'll agree 100% on that. However, if there were no differences in the software/interface itself, we'd all use the same thing. That's like saying that since "Guy A" likes 5'2" 90 lbs. asian women, that "Guy B" who prefers Anna-Nicole types during her fat phase should be just as happy with said asian women. Hey, they all have the same "parts" after all.

The best bet would be to sit down with a competent user of the software and have them give you a tour of the utilities and how they work. Just my thoughts.

I agree with this last statement, but once again, instead of tracking down someone who has this software, and is familiar with it, AND is willing to take the time to hold your hand through it, it would be a lot easier for those of us who use/have used multiple tune/edit software to decide whether it's worthwhile to at least buy it and try it in real-world if we had the opportunity to play with the software first.

This was the first thing I looked for (demo version) when I came on here. I was surprised that I couldn't find one on the main page thus I did a search and came across this.

The above might not be the communal opinion of others on here (but I see quite a few people asking for a demo), but after using a lot of other software on cars over the last 10 years, I'm really not going to just buy something on a whim to try it out just on the company's advertisments on their own website and a handful of users.

For all I know, this could be absolutely great software, but I'm not willing to buy something I can't even look at (besides a couple of screenshots) before throwing down the money, when I can at least demo the other stuff.

[12secSS]

You're kidding, right? Speedpro, Haltech, AEM, Tune Edit, and a slew of other tuning software companies all have demo versions on their programs.

The statement you quoted was in reference to Solid Model (3D) Design software, such as AutoCAD, Solidworks, CADKEY, Pro-E, etc ... These do not offer demos, but I do own and can operate skillfully. Can Joe Public understand and utilize it if he had a demo (don't think so)?

Stand alones are not for the first timer, which is my target for discussion. Proffessionals should know how to tune and can benefit from a demo. Like most industry professional (not just EFI Tuning) who are trained in their choosen profession, they can acquire a sample of the required software and familirize themselves with the layout.

It tells me a lot. How are the menus laid out? Is there a lot of useless crap to navagate through that you won't use (AEM for example)? Is it archaic in design akin to the older Haltech software? Are the quickkeys laid out decently? Does it have global adjustments? I could go on for an hour with this list.

You are a professional, most newbies are not. Totally different case. But I do agree with you on your points.

With stock ECM editing software, yes, they're all working with the same ECM hardware to edit. However, not all have the same abilities, options, and ease of use (layout). If that statement were correct, no one would use Motec units at outrageous sums of money as an entrance fee---we'd all be more then happy with a vintage E6S Haltech and DOS software for $1000, or even more archaic Mega-Squirt.

In regards to OEM PCM, yes I am correct ... for the majority of users out there. When you start to need to extract the most out of your setup, then you begin to look at what software offers the most for your particular setup. Be it OEM or stand alone. Remember, I am aiming this towards the (majority of) DIYers that has at most a heads/cam car.

Yes, the software is only as powerful as the user. I'll agree 100% on that. However, if there were no differences in the software/interface itself, we'd all use the same thing. That's like saying that since "Guy A" likes 5'2" 90 lbs. asian women, that "Guy B" who prefers Anna-Nicole types during her fat phase should be just as happy with said asian women. Hey, they all have the same "parts" after all.

That is now preferance. Personally, I do not like asian chicks, but I did like Anna during her younger (Guess jeans) years. But truthfully, ustilizing the "parts" from a small frame asian vs fat Anna properly can get you the same results: STDs or children.

I agree with this last statement, but once again, instead of tracking down someone who has this software, and is familiar with it, AND is willing to take the time to hold your hand through it, it would be a lot easier for those of us who use/have used multiple tune/edit software to decide whether it's worthwhile to at least buy it and try it in real-world if we had the opportunity to play with the software first.

Again, you are thinking of a proffessional, not a first time DIY. Totally different.

This was the first thing I looked for (demo version) when I came on here. I was surprised that I couldn't find one on the main page thus I did a search and came across this.

The above might not be the communal opinion of others on here (but I see quite a few people asking for a demo), but after using a lot of other software on cars over the last 10 years, I'm really not going to just buy something on a whim to try it out just on the company's advertisments on their own website and a handful of users.

We do that when we first start messing with cars, what is the difference? Experience!

For all I know, this could be absolutely great software, but I'm not willing to buy something I can't even look at (besides a couple of screenshots) before throwing down the money, when I can at least demo the other stuff.

As I posted previously, I am not opposed to a demo. I believe for first timers it will be useless and in fact may confuse them even more. For "experts", of course it is beneficial, as I posted in my quoted post, the first quote you made you proved my point. "Experts" can benefit from a demo, firstimers may not benefit from a demo and will require training more so then a demo.

I hope we are clear on my position regarding a demo.

[Country Boy]

Lets let the newbies settle this!

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668001

[alanderson1978]

I like the idea of the software being locked up. It makes a stolen cable useless since you have to have a login bound to your serial number.

Won't necessarily stop theft, since people will steal for the sake of stealing.

[MeentSS02]

Lets let the newbies settle this!

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668001

You mean the EFI Live proponents?

[S2H]

hey guys..hold tight.....

I pm's keith about this just last night...
he said there is something in the works....its just not fully ready yet...
so sit tight and something will be out before too long hopefully..