3.6 pentastar w/ ripp supercharger tuning

[MagicSteve]

I have a 2016 dodge charger 3.6 that i installed a ripp supercharger on. After install and with the base tune, the vehicle ran great. After getting it tuned, the vehicle made 440rwhp, with that in mind, i imagine the vehicle made 460hp+ to the engine. The car also had a stock exhaust with flowmaster mufflers.

Recently, i de-cat the vehicle and installed a 2.62" pulley from the 2.87" pulley that came with the supercharger. After the de-cat, the afr began the run rich. So after a few videos and a wide-band sensor install, i taught myself how to adjust the afr. After a few test drives and logs, i added a hp calculator and the engine is only making about 390hp. I tried adjusting the spark table at wot but cant seem to figure out which table or what the correct process is to adjust spark. I've added 7 degrees to wot but haven't seen a change anywhere. No change in hp or a change in the actual spark pid.

Main thing i need help with is someone showing me how to adjust spark any information is appreciated. Want some help before i keep adding and blow something up.

Thanks
-steven

p.s. I disabled the neural network

[LilSick]

post the tune

*what is the voltage from the sensors and was it already pulling timing?

[MagicSteve]

Here is the current tune file and 2 logs I got when at WOT. I just noticed that in the file Neutral Network is enabled, but the tune I'm currently using is the exact same, just neural network is disabled.

[HaasExp]

p.s. I disabled the neural network

I hope you understand that if it was tuned with the NN enabled, then the tune will most likely be wayyyyyy off if you just simply disable the NN.
Disabling the NN will require a lot of work with the VE tables (because the tune now will refer to them) and also the spark tables because the airflow is calculated very different.

I assume you are running the DBS "high boost" pulley? With this pulley you are definitely not giving yourself much margin of error to learn how to tune.
These engines have very thin cylinder liners which are susceptible to cracking even at low boost ~13psi.

My suggestion is to stick to the large diameter pulley until you understand the basics of tuning and keep a careful eye out for any knock.
Randomly adding 7 degrees to a WOT timing table is setting up yourself for disaster, especially if you are using the calculated HP numbers to advise you on which way to go with the tune.
These HP/torque numbers are determined from a model, they are not real and can lead you well astray.
You will need a much more useful metric to assess your tunes. A dyno is the obvious one.

There is a lot of info on these forums and also HP academy, but you will have to start with the absolute basics.
Eg why do I need to add timing, how far can I go, how will I know how far to push it, what will changing the AFR do, what AFR to target, and the most important question: what are the repercussions if I get it wrong.

[Ahmed al ansari]

Here is the current tune file and 2 logs I got when at WOT. I just noticed that in the file Neutral Network is enabled, but the tune I'm currently using is the exact same, just neural network is disabled.

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[chance91]

Just FYI, as HAAS stated, you are pretty much at the limits. We have about 30k miles on an older tidalwave 3.6 SC setup, we used the 12.7 psi pulley (at about 6800rpm we see 12+ psi), and its a very tight window to getting it right. We made 495 on E85 with larger LS7 injectors matched for E85. About 460 without. PUG intake upgrade, some porting, few other odds and ends.
We have gone through wrecking the motor and stuff before, its a small window you have.

One thing, I would recommend a 1-step colder plug, we used ones from a mitsubishi Evo, I don't have PN anymore but with some research you can figure this out. Aside from that, best of luck.

[turbojrod]

Who did your tune to get to 440rwhp?
I?d be happy to get to that level.
Have struggled to find a dyno tuner that?s interested in doing the work.

[MI_Tuning]

i would honestly not be messing with your tune if you dont understand it because you will blow your motor commanding more boost and throwing 7* of timing at it , your fueling is way off as well.

[MagicSteve]

*Update*
After doing some diagnosing and installing a boost gauge, I discovered that I wasn't getting up to 11psi of boost anymore at WOT. It was now reading at 8-10psi. When I installed the smaller pulley, I went one size smaller for the belt but it wouldn't fit so I left the same one on. After some digging, I found a belt from continental right in the middle of the two belts that was I think 10mm smaller then the original one . With the new belt, everything came back to normal. I'm at 11-13psi again. Put the timing back to it's adjustment from the tuner. Adjusted the fuel trim for the pulley and vehicle is making 490hp at the crank. I imagine that's making ~450-460rwhp.

With all positives, there is a downfall. I haven't made anymore adjustments to the timing or fuel in a while. Have done multiple runs with no issues, everything is working fine. One cold morning, I think it was 30 degrees out dry no ice. I though it would be a perfect time for a pull to see how much the car can produce. Empty road, I installed 275/55R20 in the rear to experiment if more side wall helps with traction. Beside the rubbing on the inside liner, the car gripped better. I floored it, car took off, went through the gears. Vehicle got to 5th at peaks HP made it to 514 when.... 2 connecting rods on opposite sides gave out. 2 holes on each side of the block. Everything else is fine, just engine block rods and pistons are toast.

But no worries, another block is here. Purchases new forged rods twice the size of OE. New forged diamond pistons and head studs to rebuild the engine. Pulling out the engine to rebuild it to see what else I'm going to need. One thing I'm going to change is a better radiator. I did see the coolant temp climb quite a bit.

[HaasExp]

2 connecting rods on opposite sides gave out. 2 holes on each side of the block. Everything else is fine, just engine block rods and pistons are toast.

This still should have not happened on a good tune. 13psi is nothing for the stock internals on these.
I've seen just over 18psi on a few penta's and the stock internals have held up well.
Not recommended though, as the cylinder sleeves have a tendency to crack on high boost. The sleeves are a known weak point and seem to crack well before the internals give up.

If you are going through all that trouble to build a forged engine, you should also get the block machined to fit darton (or similar) sleeves.

[veeefour]

This still should have not happened on a good tune. 13psi is nothing for the stock internals on these.
I've seen just over 18psi on a few penta's and the stock internals have held up well.
Not recommended though, as the cylinder sleeves have a tendency to crack on high boost. The sleeves are a known weak point and seem to crack well before the internals give up.

If you are going through all that trouble to build a forged engine, you should also get the block machined to fit darton (or similar) sleeves.

Sorry this is just wrong...those engines will make piston leave
the chat at anything above 7 psi long term - this is open deck design and
pistons are very weak...tuned probably 300 boosted pentastars
and granaded a few...just stop.

10-18 psi? Sure once or twice lol

[HaasExp]

Sorry this is just wrong...those engines will make piston leave
the chat at anything above 7 psi long term - this is open deck design and
pistons are very weak.

Interesting.

Can you define "long term"?

I've personally run my Sprintex Wrangler on over 10psi with quite a bit of towing for over 40,000kms and the pistons are still in it.
All the stock RIPP kit vehicles I've tuned peak at around 13psi and hold up well.
Sprintex SPS kits I've tuned with 60mm pulleys run around 13-15psi and hold up well.

The only stock Pentastar (with arp headstuds) I've had crack a sleeve so far was running 16-18psi on gasoline, then e85 for quite a few low 12sec to high 11sec 1/4-mile times.
It was beat on for over a year until the boost eventually peaked at near 19psi and it cracked a sleeve during another 10sec 60-130mph pull.
All the pistons and rods were still fine in it after disassembly.

[veeefour]

Interesting.

Can you define "long term"?

I've personally run my Sprintex Wrangler on over 10psi with quite a bit of towing for over 40,000kms and the pistons are still in it.
All the stock RIPP kit vehicles I've tuned peak at around 13psi and hold up well.
Sprintex SPS kits I've tuned with 60mm pulleys run around 13-15psi and hold up well.

The only stock Pentastar (with arp headstuds) I've had crack a sleeve so far was running 16-18psi on gasoline, then e85 for quite a few low 12sec to high 11sec 1/4-mile times.
It was beat on for over a year until the boost eventually peaked at near 19psi and it cracked a sleeve during another 10sec 60-130mph pull.
All the pistons and rods were still fine in it after disassembly.

Id to see the projects you done - you can find 300 boosted pentastars on my socialmedia pages. Where I can find yours?

You can run +10psi but on E85/race gas only, on regular 93 this will pop a piston like after 5 pulls and you have a confirmation from the other guy.