5.4l 3v Moddified || O2/FuelTrims outa ballance

[markes12344]

-5.4l 3v crate motor, 50k KM on it by now.
-Banks High Ram Cold Air Intake.
-Ford Performance 24lbs/11-18ohm 6hole injectors M-9593-LU24A (followed their spec sheet to adjusts tune for them)
-1.75" Tuned Long Tube Headers 304SS high flow CAT, 1 upstream and 1 downstream O2 per side before 3" y-pipe.
-New with engine, upstream O2 Motocraft Sensors.
-BBK 80mm TB w/ new NAPA TPS and Control Motor.

Basically I'm in it for the long game. Learning and tunning as I go.
So far as mentioned I adjusted for the new Injectors as per FordPerformace Data Sheet on them. Upgraded due to one of the 300k km injectors was sticking open once n awhile.

I've rocked the Banks Cold Air intake well before this engine and modifications. No tune specifically for it. Upgraded it just because its BANKS and I've always been a fan of the washable filters, got it down to a science. just buy 2, always got one refreshed and ready, so every 25k km i hot swap out during oil change

The OEM 75mm TB motor control died, so figured ill try the BBK TB. I will say the reviews arnt wrong it's kinda a pain in the dick to get set up. Defiantly need to modify the plastic of the control motor and hold your tongue right putting it together to get the blade to rotate smooth. Had to back the mechanical spring back screw off, It's spring tension is to aggressive and gave a EngineFailSafeMode code for stuck open. I first tuned for the TB by increasing the TB Effective Area chart by the inverse of the 75mmArea/80mmArea. But by TB version 4 I put 1deg back to stock, and cut my 2.5deg increase in half.
Shortly i'm going to be upgrading oil pump replacing timing chains, cams, and upgrade the lifters and roller followers (ex mechanic dragged the passenger side threw the dirt, had it tappin since new, but now sounding dangerous.) when that happens i'm going to have the intake manifold off, so im going to hone the throat out to 80mm to match. I will also be seeing if I'm lucky enough that the OEM mechanical spring 0deg spring back will fit the BBK TB, as with it backed off, there's now the rarest chance there's not enough spring back to bounce the blade off 0deg sucked closed. (happened twice over the course of the 40k km)
I'm also curious on if the IRCM is going faulty or is carboned up or if the ex mechanic has some wire harness's against is hard.
(side note, anyone know some subtle or obvious indications of a poorly functioning Intake Runner Valves?)

Long tube headers because manifold leaks on this 5.4l is notorious for leaking and my ex mechanic installed Headman Stainless Ceramic shorties but he warped them trying to seal them to eh y-pipes constantly lieing to me about the leak with excuses like oh your cats are getting thin it's not the 2bolt flange leaking. So one quick stop at SummitRacing and the American Racing Headers were at my door in no time and I installed them in a day. Engine in bay.



That's about all the history I can give a fella off the top of my head, so now onto my question.

I'm having an issue with idle, once and awhile comming up to a stop and or sitting at a stop the idle fluctuates form 550RPM to 650ish 700 witch is enough to push the truck. Been logging files for quite some time, I've noticed the desired TB deg is 1 or 0, yet the TB is bouncing 0-5deg. all while the STFT's are bouncing first.
I'm also watching the Fuel trims and O2's just consistently bouncing. I'll upload two Logs and my 2 tunes.

First Log TBv4 and tune is my latest one, and the log starts from a fresh flash, so there's no real LTFT in memory. But watch it closer to the end of the trip and the trim and 02's just can't get along. (HomeToWork TBv4)HomeToWork TBv4.hpl 5.4l Injector WITH BKthrottlebody v4.hpt

Second log is with my TBv2 and is after quite a few days/ engine cycles. (PARK= mainly sitting in park Engine Warm idling, HomeToMall= average drive form my country house to the big city, lost of idle issues in the city)Park.hpl HomeToMall 10cAmbiet.hpl 5.4l Injector WITH BKthrottlebody v2.hpt


So take a look at the log and let me know what you guys think is going on. Tune failure or Mechanical Failure

P.S. just remembered when reading my Log Files Name, both my ambient sensor and IAT are reading wrong. if its only 10c ambient out the ambient sensor is reading -2c and IAT is at 10c, both MAF and Ambient sensor has been replaced and wires tested for shorts/ resistance. No change occurred, is this just HP tuners reading wrong or needing calibrated?

[Pistol_91]

Definitely something weird going on there with the o2's. The fuel trims dont look that bad though and your MAF curve looks clean. I know on my car i had to adjust my torque inverse tables on the idle cells to get it to idle worth a damn. Looks like you have your Idle rpm set kinda low too maybe adjust that? I think it said in park its like 500rpm?

[markes12344]

Definitely something weird going on there with the o2's. The fuel trims dont look that bad though and your MAF curve looks clean. I know on my car i had to adjust my torque inverse tables on the idle cells to get it to idle worth a damn. Looks like you have your Idle rpm set kinda low too maybe adjust that? I think it said in park its like 500rpm?

Transport Delay i'm thinkin.. Long tube headers have to o2's further from the engine.

OEM has idles down low. I raised 'in gear rpm by 50'

[Lost0187]

You need to always be logging maf and maf voltage to your calibration logs here is a fix for your injectors if they are the blueish purple Ford Racing M9593-M23 injectors your data was a little off try this and see also add maf voltage pid to your vcm scanner it will help get that throttle body and intake optimized. I added a 2d file as well you can test with a slightly different vct base if you like the power delivery better.

If you have any questions you ca DM or post here ill try my best to help.

[markes12344]

I just seen your reply Lost0187, thanx for the help.
In the mean time i been dialing in the transport delay for the long tube headers and thought i needed to increase MAF for the banks intake. turns out even at 5% increase i'm in negative fuel trims.

The injectors are purple, not that part number they're M-9593-LU24A, so not sure if you'd still advise the edit you provided Lost0187. Here's a link to Ford Performance's spec sheet on them 397-m-9593-lu24a.pdf InjectorSpecSheetURL

here are some of the tune's and tests I been doing this past week. please let me know if there's anything else I need to be scanning for, or another graph i should be making.

Ignore my MAF Curve name, that's the venture i started but switch gears quick to the Transport Delay for the Long tube headers

This is my most rececent tune and log
MAF Curve 5% Delay 30% Test 4.hpl
5.4l Injector WITH BKthrottlebodyVr4 WITH LongTubeO2Delay+30% WITH Banks+05%.hpt

Older log
MAF Curve 5% Delay 20% Test 1.hpl
5.4l Injector WITH BKthrottlebodyVr4 WITH LongTubeO2Delay+20% WITH Banks+05%.hpt

[Lost0187]

I will take a look this afternoon and let you know what I see in those cals. Fuel Trims will always be changing especially SHORT TRIMS as log as they stay under 6 + or - to start you are good. As you fine tune it you can dial them back to be 3 + or - then once you get them where they seem good and the truck responds well to the throttle input you can play with your timing and fueling at WOT.


I sent i did adjust transport delay some but log transport delay if possible will be in engine fuel if I'm not mistaken. Also I got that injector data straight from food they were the purple 24 ford racing injectors try those I sent and see if fuel trims are closer to -3 / +3 ad see how it idles. Also added alittle data for your BBK 80MM Throttle body i the edits above.

Also add Engine / Air Flow / Miscellaneous/ AIR LOAD to the VCM SCANER its fords most important channel ad is used by 85% of the calibration

Also not sure why you changed the long trim vs cylinder bank assignment was there a reason for that? If it was due to fuel trims being high most likely your injector data or maf wasn't properly calibrated.

[markes12344]

Been some time. took a lot of step forward, and ended up walking back a bunch.
Here's my current tune/log. MAF Curve 0.5%v6 Delay 27.5% Test 4.hpl 5.4l Injector WITH BKthrottlebodyVr4 WITH LongTubeO2Delay+27.5% WITH Banks+0.5%Vr1.hpt

Just looking at that fuel injector chart you provided I just got a little concerned because it's the 56lbs injector and I'm runin 24lbs injectors.
I'll add the channels you suggest to my logs.
I changed my cylinder banks. because I noticed cylinder 3 and 7 are swapped, figured this was just Fords way of keeping Bank 1 and 2, close to the same. you'll see in my recent tune it's back to stock. Mechanically speaking cylinder 1234 are bank 1 and 5678 are bank 2 but fords 1274 and 5638 respectively and it still dosn't make logical sense to me yet.

Like I said ill be adding some channels to my log then I'll do another pull tonight before I change my tune again.

[Thatwhite5.0]

The injector data you have is correct. You can leave it at that. Your fuel trims really don't look that bad for narrrowbands. I usually disable the LTFT to dial in fuel and they end up staying permanently off.
As for the idle issue. You shouldn't have your idle RPM set at the same RPM as your max idle RPM..... or don't have your max idle RPM set at your idle RPM. Little things get missed, nothing major but you felt it.
The cylinder banks are stock, that's how they came in your file, you will never need to change that.

I adjusted your tune a little bit so you can have something to look at.. 5.4l Injector WITH BKthrottlebodyVr4 WITH LongTubeO2Delay+27.5Vr1-----Edit.hpt

[Lost0187]

After reviewing the latest log it looks like you are getting quite lean from 1500 rpms up I made a couple adjustments in the MAF you can try as a stepping stone and work off the one you like most. At the end of the day you will have to get the truck to your preference. Trans tuning will go a log way in the feel of the truck and what i think you should focus on once the calibration gets fueling under control.

Also 4 has some slight timing adjustments and a vct update you may like vs the original 06 calibration vct schedule just make sure to look them over and see what has been changed to base your future adjustments off.

hope you can get your truck running like you want it but as with anything it takes time and testing to get it exactly where you want it have a great night hope to hear back soon.

p.s. make sure to log fuel pressure and dc of pump driver as well as the most important pid AIR LOAD its what 90% of the calibration is based on.

[Lost0187]

Also might have sent you the wrong cal prior if the injectors were mapped as 56lb my bad the data I went off was off the ford performance site when I did the 24lb set up have so many cals so again just make sure to look everything over prior to using just incase a mistake was made. Your Injector data should be good, just go off what ford has posted for the 24lb purple injectors. The Numbers on ford performance web site is what I'd start with they are numbers at the 39.15 psi base pressure your fuel system uses. M-9593-LU24A is what I would use. If I sent you one that had 56lbers it was probably for a FI set up i was working on ill make you a folder so that doesn't happen again.

M-9593-LU24A Injectors.jpgM-9593-LU24A Injector Data .png

The 2005-2008 f150 and 2005-2010 Mustang 3V vehicles use a rail pressure and temp sensor as well as a dive module that varies voltage to the pump to get the desired psi. On the newer stuff it has a regulator built into the pump assembly itself that keeps pressure at a constant I think its like 56 to 58 psi they also have a type of driver but its basically low (idle) and high (driving) your pump module is always working to keep rail pressure at a base of 39.15 to 40.02 depending on calibration.