need help: Coyote Gen3 Crate motor - new install - bank 2 shutting down, not firing

[toadster]

Having a bugger of a time with my Coyote Gen 3 crate engine (M-6007-M50C) with the Ford Performance M-6017-M50B Control Pack in my Factory Five Cobra

Lund Tuning and Ford Performance are stumped on this one, been trying to get this running properly since April

Setup is as follows - using VCM BETA Suite

• Gen3 Coyote Crate engine wired as suggested by Factory Five (everyone with a Gen3 coyote uses this guide)
• FPR set to 65PSI with fuel pressure regulator, and verified in VCM Suite
• removed the IMRC controls on the back of the engine, locked them open with MMR lockout kit
• engine fired on first try so all electricals seem to be good
• flashed with Lund Base Tune that accounts for my build, e.g. MAF/intake, removed IMRC, and I have catalytic converters in my headers
• the passenger side (bank1) runs great, gets up to 380F pretty quickly, bank2 (driver side) gets up to about 95F and backfires
• on initial startup it seems that bank 2 fires for a rotation or two, then shuts down that bank

from Lund: its being wonky from the start. bank 1 trends richer and richer then it cycles out of cold start emissions reduction and bank 2 AFR fails goes max lean and trims on bank 2 go to 97% lean correction.
its like that side of the engine stops firing. so far off that it eventually matches the correction on the bank but AFR still pegged lean. this is really weird this is the first I've seen this.

permanent codes - I'm told they'll go away after some drive time
P0356 - Ignition Coil F Primary/Secondary Circuit (Permanent) - e.g. cylinder #6 coilpack issue
P0124 - Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor A Intermittent (Permanent) - not uncommon on these engines I've been told and should go away
P2017 - Intake Manifold Runner Position Sensor/Switch Circuit High Bank 1 (Permanent)
P2022 - Intake Manifold Runner Position Sensor/Switch Circuit High Bank 2 (Permanent)
P2008 - Intake Manifold Runner Control Circuit/Open Bank 1 (Permanent)

troubleshooting:

• have swapped O2 sensors side to side, problem stays on bank2
• got a new 175T harness from Ford - no difference in O2 readings
• swapped coil packs side to side, problem stayed on #6
• swapped plugs from #6 to others - stayed on #6
• NOID light, all COPs firing
• tested all (4) VTC solenoids (2 bank1, 2 bank2) and all function with 12v tests (clicking)
• 3 pages of testing from Ford determined something wrong with engine harness, new harness shipped last week, seemed to get bank #2 up to much hotter (untouchable) temps but on next startup back to cold bank #2 running/shutdown
• checked all plugs, swapped out with new ones too - same issue

tl/dr; coyte fires up fine, shuts down bank#2 and doesn't come up to temp

seriously perplexed as to why this is happening, Lund and Ford are stumped as well... HPL file attached if anyone wants to take a peek at an idea...

hpl file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZBl...usp=share_link

[veeefour]

IMO this is a voltage problem, check grounds, check generator voltage and battery drain.

Had this few times, pcm shutting cylinders like wanting to rip itself apart. Only 3rd gen would that.

[toadster]

IMO this is a voltage problem, check grounds, check generator voltage and battery drain.

Had this few times, pcm shutting cylinders like wanting to rip itself apart. Only 3rd gen would that.

interesting we've been chasing that route as well

• I have the the control pack PDU ground direct to battery (as per Ford instructions)
• battery is grounded to bare metal on frame
• fuse panel is grounded to bare metal frame
• I also have 2 engine ground straps, 1 per side, each strap is mounted between bare metal on frame to an engine mount (opposing sides)

it's a new battery, 12.4V measured and about 14.5 when running, so the alternator should be good
keeping it on a tender as well for now

[veeefour]

3rd gen has this odd way of cutting things when a problem is detected - it cuts to a point it shakes so bad you just shut if off as you think this will explode in a second.

Three is a sequence of shutting cylinders somewhere. To my experience its always related to 2 things:

1.) voltage problem, had this happen to me twice, once the generator was giving up sending strange low and voltage/PWM that was disrupting
the ignition coils to a point PCM popped circuit code. Changed the generator and problem gone.

2.) grounding was just corroded on a strut tower


Both of those happened in 2 gen Mustang with swapped 3rd gen PCM's. Now its the third time I see this happening.

I had similar story while playing with F150 OS where MAP sensor went south, It started doing the same thing, not sure on this one just my observation.

I know for a fact that its using LOW RANGE tables in DD in some cases. By copying the master torque demand into low range you can tell this is the case.
This is usually when a wrench light is on a dash which you cant tell as you don't have a stock instrument cluster Id imagine. Some DTCs will pop a wrench
on a dash like MAP or IMRC DTC, some just wont.

[toadster]

3rd gen has this odd way of cutting things when a problem is detected - it cuts to a point it shakes so bad you just shut if off as you think this will explode in a second.

Three is a sequence of shutting cylinders somewhere. To my experience its always related to 2 things:

1.) voltage problem, had this happen to me twice, once the generator was giving up sending strange low and voltage/PWM that was disrupting
the ignition coils to a point PCM popped circuit code. Changed the generator and problem gone.

2.) grounding was just corroded on a strut tower


Both of those happened in 2 gen Mustang with swapped 3rd gen PCM's. Now its the third time I see this happening.

I had similar story while playing with F150 OS where MAP sensor went south, It started doing the same thing, not sure on this one just my observation.

I know for a fact that its using LOW RANGE tables in DD in some cases. By copying the master torque demand into low range you can tell this is the case.
This is usually when a wrench light is on a dash which you cant tell as you don't have a stock instrument cluster Id imagine. Some DTCs will pop a wrench
on a dash like MAP or IMRC DTC, some just wont.

thanks for your inputs, I don't think this is parts failure, all the parts are new (crate motor) but doesn't alleviate the issue, so we are testing/validating the parts
we've checked many of the sensors and the alternator seems to be generating the right voltages

the frame is powdercoated, but I've drilled and went to bare metal on each ground, I'll probably re-check each one

as far as programming tables, etc. I'm not doing this stuff - LUND is the tuner, and I don't have the knowledge, etc to mess with that stuff
I do have a CEL/MIL with my OBDII port, and I can check for codes as well as you stated not all DTCs will throw a CEL

[veeefour]

Actually MIL is one thing, but some codes will throw a "wrench" - SES service engine soon.

Normally you can drive with MIL being on. Once "wrench"/SES is on a dash it might go into limp mode.

[toadster]

ford is shipping me a new PCM - hope that fixes it!

[veeefour]

Hope this will fix it.

[toadster]

ugh, same issue - initially got the driver side up to 250-270F then it shutdown...

[veeefour]

When I look into log its plane and simple. Bank 2 oxygen sensor is shutting down and fuel system goes into CL fault.

If you say everything is OK mechanically the only other reason might be a tune. Have you ever tired going back to stock?

[toadster]

When I look into log its plane and simple. Bank 2 oxygen sensor is shutting down and fuel system goes into CL fault.

If you say everything is OK mechanically the only other reason might be a tune. Have you ever tired going back to stock?

we've swapped O2 sensors side to side, and even tried a new one - the problem stays on bank #2
this ECU is stock from Ford - no tune...

[veeefour]

So new pcm, new harness new o2 sensors and still the same?

Strange you say its a stock tune and you still have trims over 30% apart like running with cam timing being incorrect/running funky overlap.

This might be your engine at the end of that day, common sense will say yes this might be the case plus we dont see any cam position in VCT.

The best way to verify the cams are ok is to switch the VCT off and log all 4 cams. With VCT being off you will see the actual cam position.

[B E N]

Check that your O2 wiring isn't swapped side to side. It is possible with the control pack wiring and will account for the trims.

I know you stated you have a crate engine, is it for sure a crate engine and not a used truck engine?

[veeefour]

Check that your O2 wiring isn't swapped side to side. It is possible with the control pack wiring and will account for the trims.

I know you stated you have a crate engine, is it for sure a crate engine and not a used truck engine?

+1

[toadster]

So new pcm, new harness new o2 sensors and still the same?
Strange you say its a stock tune and you still have trims over 30% apart like running with cam timing being incorrect/running funky overlap.
This might be your engine at the end of that day, common sense will say yes this might be the case plus we dont see any cam position in VCT.
The best way to verify the cams are ok is to switch the VCT off and log all 4 cams. With VCT being off you will see the actual cam position.

in order to get this datalog, I have to flash the Lund Tune which is modified from stock
I have the new ECU installed, but I haven't flashed with the LUND tune yet - so it's still "as-programmed" by Ford Racing but I believe the ECU isn't loggable until it's assigned

as per the HPT forum: https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...rt-Extra-Steps

once I generate the OSID, can I run a datalog with VCM without a Lund Tune? (never tried that, thought Lund had to program the ECU to talk with it properly)

how would I switch VCT off? software? unplug them all? ???

Check that your O2 wiring isn't swapped side to side. It is possible with the control pack wiring and will account for the trims.
I know you stated you have a crate engine, is it for sure a crate engine and not a used truck engine?

we've checked/swapped both sides and the problem stays on bank2 no matter where the wires are located
the crate engine was purchased new from Ford, assembled and mated to the transmission and shipped to me
https://fortesparts.com/product/5-0l...ngine-package/

[toadster]

tried logging, it worked

here's a new datalog, Ford programming - still not firing right on bank2

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ni2...usp=drive_link

[veeefour]

New PCM, new harness another tune, you ruled out everything besides new engine...

[toadster]

New PCM, new harness another tune, you ruled out everything besides new engine...

the only harness we haven't replaced is the harness that connects to the gas pedal, fusepanel, PDB, etc.

other than a wrong cam in the driver head, potentially a VVT solenoid failure or Cam Position Sensor? but those would throw a code IMHO
really stumped...

also, with the new ECU, getting only 3 codes (which are expected) - I removed the CMCV valves which will be tuned out as to not throw the codes

P2008 Intake Manifold Runner Control Circuit/Open
P2017 Intake Manifold Runner Position Sensor/Switch Circuit High
P2022 Intake Manifold Runner Position Sensor/Switch Circuit High

curious why I don't get a P2011 Intake Manifold Runner Control Circuit/Open ?? is this normal? or should I be getting another code for bank2?

[veeefour]

Well as posted before, if you have codes 3 gen may enter funny limp mode. Have you ever tried to modify the tune so no codes are present?

[toadster]

Well as posted before, if you have codes 3 gen may enter funny limp mode. Have you ever tried to modify the tune so no codes are present?

I don't want to modify the stock tune yet since we're troubleshooting - this is a common code when the CMCVs are locked open
example of CMCV lockout: https://lmr.com/item/MMR-478911/2018...rc-deletes-red

it shouldn't put the car into limp mode sitting here idling, and a few revs - I would assume limp mode if you're trying to drive the car around but this is a simple start/log and a few revs - would also think that it would also affect bank #1 as well