VE Tuning

[kingtal0n]

well this is where im at feel like i the tables a mess still looking at the graph low rpm when the converter locks i get a lot of knock proably normal it seems like some times when i wrote the new data it goes away then when i log and re write it sometimes it comes back like bouncing back and forth ive tried getting into it 3rd gear 2cd gear high rpm trying to hit as many cells as i can but not sure how much crazier to go before i re enable and tune the maf.
Attachment 139947
Attachment 139948

1. VE table comments
The very high VE table values over 100 and especially at 30 and 40kpa say that something is wrong with a basic setup, if the maf is actually failed. Usually it means the fuel injector size and/or data is wrong.
The only place VE values shall generally approach 100 is near 100KPA. Keep that in mind. However,

I don't think your maf is failed. It still shows up in the log and the numbers are close to reported dynamic airflow or whatever. I don't tune maf so I am not sure what I should be seeing but judging by the crazy VE values and the fact the engine is still running in closed loop switching the O2 I think the ve table is not doing much of anything.
I would unplug the maf and relocate the IAT sensor and forget about the maf completely, like a true stand-alone computer, you know, the way every high performance engine is tuned.



2. Tuning comments
A. Your cruise at 80mph and 80KPA? Seems like it is way off. Is this a very heavy truck? I need to know vehicle weight to establish expected pressures. The air temp is very cold so if this is a 6L engine in a 3500lbs vehicle it should not be cruising 80KPA that is a warning flag. Could just be heavy though.

B. cruise timing is meh needs work But depending on the weight of the vehicle I dont know yet

C. at 8:15:49:xx You go near WOT, 95KPA, in Closed loop with O2 still switching. This is a super aggressive, dangerous move. I don't know who told you to do that or that it was okay but its not good for the engine.
You need a wideband for tuning wide open throttle unless you are super good at matching injection pulses to theoretical VE based off existing closed loop data. Its basic math but kind of lazy way to do it when widebands are so cheap.
Or I suppose you could simply hit a dynojet for that one time thing.

D. 8:19:28 what the hell am I looking at that long time span of seems like a corrupted file insertion, maybe a scanner file version mismatch or something my stuff is old does anybody else see that?



cliffs
doesnt look like ve table is 'working' maf doesnt seem failed
dont go over 75kpa in closed loop or else *shudders*
log the fuel learn correction factor or whatever its called that tells you which timing map is in use and blending
Also add transmission pressure to the log 'force motor current'

[ns158sl]

Just to add.. Unless you have the engine control figured out completely, which there is no manufacture in the world yet, MAF along with closed loop helps with temperature and humidity swings (air density, let alone elevation). By all means if you want to argue with Marcin about that, have a happy. That is why the aftermarket ECU's work, from constant corrections, like an OEM. Difference is the OEM are held to EPA standards, which why they have so many predictions and fueling tables. Aftermarket just uses the inaccurate AF wideband to keep making corrections. They dont have to meet emissions. That is probably why tuning a factory ECM is so neat, you have extremely accurate results from a sensor you can go buy anywhere. Carburetors work really well too. They just dont meet emissions lol.

Also, VE is the pumping efficiency of an engine or an air pump. Don't confuse fueling requirements of an engine with overlap or lack of measurement of the exhaust to your own "tooning". Don't confuse newer "tooners" with your weird ideas lol. Having a PHD in philosophy is not helping any of these people.

[kingtal0n]

Just to add.. Unless you have the engine control figured out completely, which there is no manufacture in the world yet,

Not english language, nonsense incomplete sentence and still somehow manages to be wrong

We can build a computer from transistors inductors resistors capacitors etc... give me a quartz crystal and 556 timers it can be custom ourselves.
Hell you can run an engine on a $40 arduino microcontroller to some extent. And furthermore a computer is not necessary to run an engine which I guess you forgot or didn't realize, engines existed before computers. Engines are "Figured out completely" long before electronics were invented. Therefore the invention of and utilization of electronics is a misnomer and inconsequential to the task of tuning.
If I am sure the engine is tuned properly that means without computer controls firstly, and then the computer factors in as an afterthought. Not the other way around.

MAF along with closed loop helps with temperature and humidity swings (air density, let alone elevation). By all means if you want to argue with Marcin about that, have a happy.

Who the hell is marcin. And what you are talking about maf does this and that. Maf is just a hotwire, literally a hot wire that air tries to change the temperature of, absolutely dependent on installation and setup practice. I've created my own maf sensors using random maf spare junk. I've tuned more maf cars than map cars. MAF is inferior in every way to MAP with respect to performance applications except that it is easier to tune, thats it. a 2D table instead of 3D. End of discussion. There is absolutely no advantage to a MAF sensor other than it makes tuning fast and easy for the guy getting paid per job vs per hour.

That is why the aftermarket ECU's work, from constant corrections, like an OEM. Difference is the OEM are held to EPA standards, which why they have so many predictions and fueling tables. Aftermarket just uses the inaccurate AF wideband to keep making corrections. They dont have to meet emissions. That is probably why tuning a factory ECM is so neat, you have extremely accurate results from a sensor you can go buy anywhere. Carburetors work really well too. They just dont meet emissions lol.

Again bullshit. There are many OEM ECU which use widebands from the factory. High quality vehicles that you didnt realize until now exist. A wideband has a narrowband inside it so saying a wideband is inaccurate is saying a narrowband is inaccurate- which is again bullshit they are extremely precise within acceptable range of operating conditions. If you don't know how to install one that is on you. You have no idea how they are designed and what sort of accuracy entails.

Also I've tuned far more setups with no computer corrections and no wideband closed loop than with. Why do you think I am so comfortable adept with it that way. Wideband closed loop correction is relatively new to the platforms of aftermarket ECU which used to rely on narrowbands just like OEM back when widebands were first became available affordably, around 2002 a hand held wideband box was $500 from a company like Innovative, and that LC-1 had a configurable analog output so you could use the wideband as a narrowband for an ECU like HPtuners.


You have no idea what you are saying and I feel bad for people you try to pretend act like you do.

[ns158sl]

Uff da. The feeling is the same. I think you forgot I said a carburetor works very well lol.

Search redhardsupra about SD tuning.

MAF. Yep. A hot wire. Yep. Wellllll that "dumb" hotwire can compensate for air density pretty well.

VW i know was one of the first to use a wideband. Wasnt it like a "limewire" or something like that? Idk that was the 90's. I know the newer cobras have a 2 WB's, which is cool. But a NB is way more accurate at stoich, especially with like idk a couple thousand "tables" that work with the NB's to give the results.

Don't get me wrong. VE tuning is essential. MAF is great too, hence using both is best of both worlds. CL is also great for environmental changes also. You're the one trying to teach everyone to use their sophisticated ECU driven engine control like a carb. Its hilarious.

[SiriusC1024]

If you guys would just calm down and let us show him how to tune CL it's going to be better on everyone. The procedure is simple and works well. No theory or opinions or any of that.

[Lxjoshxl]

I feel like i caused a big debacle... Looking at the tune sirius i didnt change the trans codes yet its very cold here and its not getting too hot. king- Yes its a 2500hd heavy truck probably 6300lbs with some tools in bed. thats converter locked in 4th getting into throttle. Im going to go back through and re check the tune for the maf settings im afraid to disable pe completely its sort of a fail safe as i read? If iat wasnt attached i would just disconnect it it throw 103 everytime mil light always on. I just feel somewhat bad at this point it seems simple and i dont want to waste anyones time...

[edcmat-l1]

Uff da. The feeling is the same. I think you forgot I said a carburetor works very well lol.

Search redhardsupra about SD tuning.

MAF. Yep. A hot wire. Yep. Wellllll that "dumb" hotwire can compensate for air density pretty well.

VW i know was one of the first to use a wideband. Wasnt it like a "limewire" or something like that? Idk that was the 90's. I know the newer cobras have a 2 WB's, which is cool. But a NB is way more accurate at stoich, especially with like idk a couple thousand "tables" that work with the NB's to give the results.

Don't get me wrong. VE tuning is essential. MAF is great too, hence using both is best of both worlds. CL is also great for environmental changes also. You're the one trying to teach everyone to use their sophisticated ECU driven engine control like a carb. Its hilarious.

The guy is a total idiot and should be kicked off of here for preaching the hackery he does.

[edcmat-l1]

I feel like i caused a big debacle...

You didn't. It's Professor Hackmaster trying to tell everyone to hack up their car's system and use 3 sensors to run their stuff.

[SiriusC1024]

Buddy, they're wasting your time. Now what do you need help with? Want to do an SD setup and be shown how to do corrections based on a log? You don't need a wideband. CL trims and the shape of the VE curve will indicate safety.

For example, one thing I noticed while messing around with VE15 and its log is that VE is really high. Are you sure fuel pressure is good?

[edcmat-l1]

Has the OP ever posted up the specs? Is everyone attempting to tune a combo they know nothing about? I'm pretty sure that vehicle didn't come with 72 lbs. per hr. injectors. Pretty sure the offset isn't right.

[SiriusC1024]

He's had a few threads. IIRC I helped him with injector data.

Yes.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-Did-I-Mess-up

Did you ever put in the Walbro pump?

And, well, might as well double check the data anyway. Post the Deatchwerks data you received, please. I can't find any files on my PC related to this, and the post history doesn't go back far enough. Maybe thinking of someone else.

[Lxjoshxl]

I was just asking if I’m going in the right direction as it seems like the graph picture looks way off from the stock. Let me post the data from the injectors I input the data you helped me with back then Sirius. Suck part was it was a bad regulator so I kept tuning off that untill I’m like why is it dropping way down one day changed it now it’s fine. I have not had time to put the walbro pump in. I’m sure stock pump can keep up for the most part? New regulator was set 58 with vacuum line off vacuum line on pressure is 52psi climbs with throttle. I’ll post injector data in 5-10min sorry if If this is annoying anyone

[Lxjoshxl]

last log current tune injector data
ve sd 38.hpl
VE SD 27.hpt
GM_injector_data_35u-60_2d11a86d-36f1-494f-9eee-3722282b66ba(1).xls

[horsepowerguru427]

I feel like i caused a big debacle... Looking at the tune sirius i didnt change the trans codes yet its very cold here and its not getting too hot. king- Yes its a 2500hd heavy truck probably 6300lbs with some tools in bed. thats converter locked in 4th getting into throttle. Im going to go back through and re check the tune for the maf settings im afraid to disable pe completely its sort of a fail safe as i read? If iat wasnt attached i would just disconnect it it throw 103 everytime mil light always on. I just feel somewhat bad at this point it seems simple and i dont want to waste anyones time...

PE doesnt really matter when most truck PCMs have it set to 100%min torque required to turn it on. not to mention RPM and MAP restrictions and time delays on top of that. You were never hitting PE anyways if you go look at the log data.

[Lxjoshxl]

Ok it thought I does when my wideband goes richer and I look at the logger and it’s zero stft on the log

[SiriusC1024]

It's almost like the regulator isn't adjusting with manifold pressure. Vacuum referenced reg, right? How sure are you about fuel pressure? Has the electronic gauge been verified? There should be a normal pressure gauge on the regulator.

[Lxjoshxl]

I mean unless the gauge is junk I have one wired into my cab of the truck 6D477381-B166-4AE2-B3C3-AFB7D477C4B8.jpg picture where the gauge is is at almost 60 on throttle pretty good

[SiriusC1024]

Wait a minute. Look at your Idle Airflow table. Now look at desired idle. Then look at Dynamic Airflow at idle. When in SD, dynamic airflow matches Volumetric Efficiency Airflow. You're tuning around a vacuum leak. Mass Airflow indicates this, too. That's why the low MAP end of the VE table is jacked way up.

[Lxjoshxl]

No egr on this intake only vacuum line is from the intake to regulator.. intake gaskets?

[Lxjoshxl]

Wait yeah and a ghetto pcv setup right now could be cause we’ll let me chase that down now getting discouraged at this point