Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: ZF8HP-55 Issues

  1. #1
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Nov 2023
    Posts
    6

    ZF8HP-55 Issues

    Hello all,

    I've been having problems with my ZF8 since I bought my car and am worried I may be in for a new transmission. If you're wondering "What the hell is the -55 variant?" well I actually have a C7 2012 Audi A6 with the 3.0T, but the Dodge forum seems much more active along with a specific subforum for the ZF8 so I decided to post here.

    I bought the car with around 110,000 miles this past May after my last Audi was unfortunately totaled, with no record of tranny fluid being performed (Audi claims tranny fluid is "lifetime"). When accelerating from a stop or accelerating after slowing down and the TC disengaging, the car accelerates but RPMs will momentarily drop once the torque converter decides to lock up. When I am in manual mode, if I try shifting while the torque converter is still slipping, the revs will drop ever so slightly until the torque converter finally locks up. If I stop accelerating while the TC is slipping the RPMs instantly drop. The TC finally locks up after about 2nd or 3rd gear and while slipping, I can definitely feel I am fighting the TC. When slowing down I can feel the TC disengage, though not harshly.

    Along with this when shifting from 5th to 6th, I can hear an audible "click" sound from the transmission outside along with a very slight thump, though nothing aggressive nor does the car lurch. When doing a launch control/brake boost, the car will short shift from 1st to 2nd (I assume due to the TC slipping so much), and once I reach the top of my RPMs, the car will refuse to shift into 3rd until I let off the gas.

    Finally when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd around 1,700 - 2,300 RPM (when I usually hit the downshift paddle), the car will lurch a little bit and hesitate where the car jerks back and forth until the shift is complete. All other downshifts, especially 5th to 4th, are lightning-quick. Upshifts under heavy throttle are also super fast, with no slippage I can feel.

    I am wondering if anyone who works with ZF8s has seen these problems before. If I am looking at the clutches in the TC being bad along with a bad solenoid in the mechatronics unit, I feel like $350 for a tranny with 60k - 75k miles (right by ZFs recommended fluid change interval) is much cheaper than a rebuild for my transmission.

    I'm a tech at the dealership and whenever I drive A4, A5, A6, or A7 with the ZF8 it is noticeably smoother with TC lockup being imperceptible, I'm never fighting the TC when accelerating, and the downshifts seem to be ever-so-slightly faster than my fast downshifts, along with the 3rd to 2nd gear lurch not being present. I performed a fluid drain and fill with new filter and that didn't help the issue. I also tuned the ECU and TCU with 034 motorsports hoping that the tune would increase clutch pressures to the clutch packs but with no luck.

    Any help is appreciated. Thank you!

    Here are some videos demonstrating my issues:

    (Slow TC lockup at 0:13, 0:25, 0:42, and 0:56, with 0:25 and 0:42 being what I experience the most)


    (Only good launch control I had, with momentary dip being me taking foot off throttle since I forgot tune had ignition-cut launch control)


    (Once I launch, it short shifts into 2nd due to TC slip I assume and then doesn't shift into 3rd until I let off the gas. Sorry for not getting good view of RPMs)
    Last edited by MyDimeIsUp; 11-19-2023 at 06:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Indianapolis Area
    Posts
    177
    Could you share the log and tune?
    Do you have any DTC present?

  3. #3
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Nov 2023
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by DodgeBoy_8HP View Post
    Could you share the log and tune?
    Do you have any DTC present?
    No DTCs present and there never have been. I can try my best to datalog using 034's program though it only data logs the ECU afaik and my OBDeleven VAG-COM scanner does not have graphing capabilities nor logging. Best I can do is screen-record the data from OBDeleven. What data values are you looking for? I know off the top of my head there is a TC slip value I can log. I can also gather clutch pack pressures and post them here.

  4. #4
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Nov 2023
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by DodgeBoy_8HP View Post
    Could you share the log and tune?
    Do you have any DTC present?
    So something very odd happened, which I've never seen before. I started my car and was driving. I noticed the torque converter was just not locking up AT ALL. I quickly pulled my phone out and recorded this video. About half-way through the video it seems to have fixed itself but obviously a sign that something bad is happening. I've attached a video as well as a screenshot of my clutch pack pressures, though I'm not sure how to interpret them or what they mean, so if someone can explain them I'd appreciate that (why are some negative and some positive). Seems the TC is just done to me. Is that the general consensus based off this video? Has anyone EVER seen this because I can't find anything on the web about a bad ZF8 torque converter?



    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by MyDimeIsUp; 11-20-2023 at 01:36 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Tuner TheMechanic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,562
    First things first. As with any diag. Hows the fluid level and condition? Can you log TCC engagement and slip? Need to know if it is not engaging for a mechanical reason, electrical, or due to another issue disabling lockup. Something as simple as a bad thermostat can cause this.

  6. #6
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Nov 2023
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMechanic View Post
    First things first. As with any diag. Hows the fluid level and condition? Can you log TCC engagement and slip? Need to know if it is not engaging for a mechanical reason, electrical, or due to another issue disabling lockup. Something as simple as a bad thermostat can cause this.
    I did a fluid drain and fill w/ new filter a little more than a month ago. Didn't notice much of a difference. There doesn't seem to be any data value to track what the status of the TC lockup nor what is being commanded to compare maybe what is being commanded vs what the actual status is. I have a video I screen recorded with TC clutch slip measured in "Revolutions/min" but it isn't in the conditions I normally drive (stop and go traffic) so I'll post back once I get a video when I experience the lock-up problems the most.

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner TheMechanic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,562
    Quote Originally Posted by MyDimeIsUp View Post
    I did a fluid drain and fill w/ new filter a little more than a month ago. Didn't notice much of a difference. There doesn't seem to be any data value to track what the status of the TC lockup nor what is being commanded to compare maybe what is being commanded vs what the actual status is. I have a video I screen recorded with TC clutch slip measured in "Revolutions/min" but it isn't in the conditions I normally drive (stop and go traffic) so I'll post back once I get a video when I experience the lock-up problems the most.
    You didn't mention the condition of the fluid when you did the service. How was it?

  8. #8
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Nov 2023
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMechanic View Post
    You didn't mention the condition of the fluid when you did the service. How was it?
    Seemed normal. Had a brown-ish color when draining and on a paper towel it didn't look burnt.

    At this point I'm just going to do a tranny swap from a car with 40 - 60k miles (right by ZF's recommended fluid change interval). I'll send the transmission to a YouTube channel that does teardowns (think "I Do Cars") and have them do a video on my transmission. Rebuild kits are expensive and it's evident that there isn't one single thing wrong, but rather multiple things with my current tranny.
    Last edited by MyDimeIsUp; 11-21-2023 at 11:49 AM.

  9. #9
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Indianapolis Area
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by MyDimeIsUp View Post
    So something very odd happened, which I've never seen before. I started my car and was driving. I noticed the torque converter was just not locking up AT ALL. I quickly pulled my phone out and recorded this video. About half-way through the video it seems to have fixed itself but obviously a sign that something bad is happening. I've attached a video as well as a screenshot of my clutch pack pressures, though I'm not sure how to interpret them or what they mean, so if someone can explain them I'd appreciate that (why are some negative and some positive). Seems the TC is just done to me. Is that the general consensus based off this video? Has anyone EVER seen this because I can't find anything on the web about a bad ZF8 torque converter?



    Hello!

    The "Fill Pressure" values you shared are related to transmission self adaptation and neither with "current pressure values" nor torque converter.

    In most of the applications, ZF "limits" Torque Converter closing under positive transmission temperatures only. So, in case tranny temp was very close to zero Celsius, it was "self-inhibiting" to completely lock.

    Regarding to log signals: TCC Locked, TCC current, TCC Slip, Trans Fluid Temp

    You still did not share a log or current tune... without them it is IMPOSSIBLE to help you

    Thanks.
    DodgeBoy.
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dodgeboy2785

  10. #10
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Nov 2023
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by DodgeBoy_8HP View Post
    Hello!

    The "Fill Pressure" values you shared are related to transmission self adaptation and neither with "current pressure values" nor torque converter.

    In most of the applications, ZF "limits" Torque Converter closing under positive transmission temperatures only. So, in case tranny temp was very close to zero Celsius, it was "self-inhibiting" to completely lock.

    Regarding to log signals: TCC Locked, TCC current, TCC Slip, Trans Fluid Temp

    You still did not share a log or current tune... without them it is IMPOSSIBLE to help you

    Thanks.
    DodgeBoy.
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@dodgeboy2785
    Sorry its been a busy week. My current tune is 034 Stage 1 ZF8 tune. For some reason the TCU does not seem to report "TCC Locked" nor "TCC current" but I do have TCC slip and trans fluid temp.

    At this point I've already ordered a matching tranny from a car with 61k miles (right by ZF's reccomended oil change interval) but since this has peaked my curosity I'll see if I can find a way to log all the data vals you're looking for. What I think will really tell the story however is when I have my current tranny sent off to a YouTube channel who does teardowns.

    I'll post again if I can find all four of those data values.