Which Wideband to get?

[Truckgmc00]

I currently have a mpvi3 Pro with the pro link+ cable and want to get a wideband that can hook up to the pro link+ cable. The vehicle is a 2001 Gmc 6.0l if that matters. I need to get one to tune the ve and dial in the maf as well. Been trying to do it without it but everywhere recommends getting a Wideband. I would like to use it on other vehicles as well if possible.

Looking at the AEM (30-0300) or AEM (30-3010)

I don?t know if the gauge is needed other than being able to view without the mpvi3 hooked up to a computer.

Do y?all know if it will work to tune and be able to read the afr in real time ? And would y?all recommend one of those or a different model/brand?

Or do I just order the AEM (30-0310) and just hook it up to the pro link cable and call it a day

[AutoWiz]

I am using Ballanger AFR500v2 by itself and then I have this I am getting up and going..



Prolink+ canbus connected to AEMnet canbus and Ballanger canbus. All canbus..



The Ballanger AFR500v2 and AFR500C come with or can come with the more robust and reliable ATK sensor. As it were I got mine from HPTuners website. They always sell good sensors.

[AutoWiz]

Here is a picture of my 2 Ballanger AFR500 sensors. They are both identical hardware but one has added support for canbus communication. It has canbus wires and it comes with an attached usb cable and also a DLC connector with the canbus connections wired to that..



Below the controllers are the NTK wideband sensors. Those are better IMHO. There is a new version out as always the AFR500C v3. But it is out of stock. So here is a link to the canbus AFR500 v2 sensor in the above picture: https://www.hptuners.com/product/bal...and-o2-system/

Also if you had to go with AEM the 30-310 works just fine as you do not need to see a gauge. We use the sensor to log with. The big thing is just don't permanently install the sensor and controller. It will live a short life and require service intervals. The wideband o2 sensor is a tuning tool. The in-line controller is nice because it can be bundled into a easy to remove harness when you are done with it. It can live indefinitely in between tuning sessions on a shelf in your garage. But overly rich conditions or oil or coolant or other contaminants will fail the wideband sensor.

[AutoWiz]

And if anybody likes or wants the housing for the sensors LMK and I can share my drawing in the form of a .stl or .obj file. It prints easy and fast and doesn't use a lot of filament.

[GHuggins]

Just something else to think about. Are you only tuning yours or are you going to be tuning others down the road?

If tuning others, I haven't used the ballenger, but the AEM OBD2 is super easy to install and use.

You need to be able to see the gauge while tuning especially on older ones you may be using other inputs like the EGR on or whatever just so you can figure in the offsets. Always recommend getting one with a gauge so you know what it's showing vs the scanner. This is if you can't set it up for CAN communications.

Autowiz - I assume the ballenger can be used as CAN even in the older vehicles using the pro link? This is good to know if you can. I was thinking the AEM could be done like that too, but was having some problems due to hpt's software changes. I also like your gauge holder. I personally used a 2 gauge holder that I would lay up on the dash's when I was dyno tuning to see each bank. Would it be any better to have the ballenger lay flat off to the side so you could see it's readout and it would help stabilize it laying on the dash or do you let it hang? I've always been afraid of tearing a mirror or something off letting it hang.

Have you by chance compared the ballenger to the AEM in a log doing quick throttle snaps? How does it compare for transient readouts?

[snives]

I have the AEM (30-0300) and the MPVI3 with the ProLink+ cable. I have the ProLink+ reading the AEM via its own CAN BUS so there isn't an extra analog to digital processing step. I like having the gauge, it supports displaying in AFR and Lambda. It reads very fast. It's been working awesome for me.

[AutoWiz]

Autowiz - I assume the ballenger can be used as CAN even in the older vehicles using the pro link? This is good to know if you can. I was thinking the AEM could be done like that too, but was having some problems due to hpt's software changes. I also like your gauge holder. I personally used a 2 gauge holder that I would lay up on the dash's when I was dyno tuning to see each bank. Would it be any better to have the ballenger lay flat off to the side so you could see it's readout and it would help stabilize it laying on the dash or do you let it hang? I've always been afraid of tearing a mirror or something off letting it hang.

Have you by chance compared the ballenger to the AEM in a log doing quick throttle snaps? How does it compare for transient readouts?

The analog sensor does not do canbus and the canbus sensor doe not do analog. For Ballanger this is an expensive option to have the faster communications. For AEM X gauges they will work both ways and we can just move pins in a connector to use analog or canbus out. Ballanger also gives us the ability to change the output parameters for canbus communications. Ballanger is 2x the price of the AEM wideband. We get what we pay for and there is good reason HPTuners is selling the Ballanger product.

I don't look at the gauge displays. I see them in the VCM scanner. I just need to keep everything neat and tidy so it doesn't go flying everywhere as I am trying to log the data.

And check out how I am using these AEM pressure and EGT gauges on the many for in the field(street) tuning. I have adapters for GM and Ford fuel rail service ports as well as adapters for -6 an -8 an and -10 an..



For the EGT sensor I have a stainless fitting I sourced from an online hydraulic supply store that converts the AEM temp probe to a O2 sensor so it can just go in an upstream o2 sensor location and not require drilling and welding in a bung. This will be further downstream in the exhaust but on stock manifolds or at high flowrates it should still get me close to accurate data..



And I reprinted my enclosure in black PETG o it can be in the sun on a dashboard without warping..





I have not done direct comparisons between the AEM and Ballanger widebands. But now that you have brought it up, I might try.

[GHuggins]

AEM was the best for quick snap readings when I compared them years ago to my lambda pro. Also why I stopped using the lambda pro (very expensive to fix or replace sensors for if I were to screw something up) and just went to using the AEM.

So to clarify. The AEM can indeed be used with the pro-link for CAN logging and so can the Ballenger? The ballenger has specific separate outputs whereas the AEM requires pin changes.

Really nice setup! Let me know what you find on the log readout for the comparison.

[AutoWiz]

So I found this old thread: http://forum.diyefi.org/viewtopic.php?t=2267&start=350

I think this is comparing Ballanger AFR500v2 analog sensor against AEM X gauge and it would be really interesting to know if the AEM is being used in Canbus. But the thread links to a thread here with the tests. I have the AFR500v2 with the NTK sensor. Unfortunately I can't find any test results with AFR500C or AFR500C v3. The NTK sensor while more robust is not slower for V2 and is faster than AEM: https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...wideband/page2


Ballanger is claiming in the above thread and displaying screenshots illustrating better reaction times than AEM with just their v2 analog. The AFR500C is relatively recent and has moved to the canbus communication and it should make for even faster communications.

I also found this video from HPTuners where they give no details in their comparison about performance but they do clearly state the AEM X gauge is their budget option in the lineup:

https://youtu.be/DTWLnb-BNjY?si=Pvav7LHZicpV0x8O

[GHuggins]

I don't know. I saw the same thing that Dr Mike pointed out. The AEM goes straight vertical on the test and the Barringer had a slight slope. To me that says the AEM reads quicker. Was glad to see the Barringer right there with it. Would be nice to see an actual in car test with both to see for sure on everything including the overshoot. Willing to bet they would both do that if the leeway was there.

[ClyjaK]

How do you handle the positioning of your Ballenger wideband gauge during dyno tuning sessions, considering its cost and the potential risk of damage when hanging or laying on the dashboard? Also, given the higher price of Ballenger compared to AEM, what factors influenced your decision to choose Ballenger for wideband tuning, and do you plan to conduct a direct comparison between the two in the future?

GHuggins, in your experience, how has the AEM wideband performed in quick throttle snap readings compared to other options, and have you encountered any challenges with its compatibility with HPTuners due to software changes? Additionally, have you considered trying out the Ballenger wideband and conducting a direct comparison with the AEM for transient readouts?

[GHuggins]

How do you handle the positioning of your Ballenger wideband gauge during dyno tuning sessions, considering its cost and the potential risk of damage when hanging or laying on the dashboard? Also, given the higher price of Ballenger compared to AEM, what factors influenced your decision to choose Ballenger for wideband tuning, and do you plan to conduct a direct comparison between the two in the future?

GHuggins, in your experience, how has the AEM wideband performed in quick throttle snap readings compared to other options, and have you encountered any challenges with its compatibility with HPTuners due to software changes? Additionally, have you considered trying out the Ballenger wideband and conducting a direct comparison with the AEM for transient readouts?

I don't do much in person tuning anymore. It's all 98 or 99 % via email. When I do in person tuning whether I'm using the shops dyno or just road tuning I prefer for them to already have a wideband in it and ready to go not to mention be using a CAN protocol for easy and consistent use. All of my stuff is setup for the AEM, so that's what they typically provide.

My testing was done right when Dr. Mike was redoing the coding for the AEM to work directly with hpt's CAN protocols. At that time I had one of his original altered ones. I compared it to my Lambda Pro and my own Innovate Wideband. I ran them both in different banks and grouped right around one another. At "that time" the AEM's and Lambda Pro's reading could literally be laid right over one another and were nearly identical. The Innovate sucked. Wouldn't pick up transients and would go through a sensor every month.

From what customers are telling me the AEM's right now are having sensor problems. May be bad right out of the box and only lasting for 3 or 4 months. Not like they were a few years ago.

I can not speak for the barringer's. That's why I was asking about them. I do know the AEM has been hit and miss with hpt updates. There's plenty on here where people are having issues using them with the pro-link for example. Also why I was asking about the CAN hookup through the pro-link.

[Alvin]

I've been though a lot of different brands.

I've settled on AEMs. Before I would find this car makes best power at XX AFR and the next would be YY AFR. Now they all seem to like roughly the same thing. They are fast and the analog output has been a set it and forget it thing. Other widebands I would record the gauge face and what Voltage is being reported in HPTuners and make a slope/offset for EACH car. That's not a thing with the AEM's. If your interested I have a post in the scanner section with a excel sheet so you can do the same.

contrary to what I read here and in the manual. I have not been able to get a analog output from the CAN version AEM. For that reason I have the non OBD2/CAN version for GEN 3 and older cars and the CAN/OBD2 version for gen 4 +

I have it all setup to move from car to car pretty easy. I re-wired my CAN AEM to get power from the DLC so its a plug in and go thing.

I haven't used the Ballenger one.. but I have the version that it is biased on.. NTK maybe? IDK. haven't thought about that thing in a long time. The box/display looks exactly the same.

[AutoWiz]

How do you handle the positioning of your Ballenger wideband gauge during dyno tuning sessions, considering its cost and the potential risk of damage when hanging or laying on the dashboard? Also, given the higher price of Ballenger compared to AEM, what factors influenced your decision to choose Ballenger for wideband tuning, and do you plan to conduct a direct comparison between the two in the future?

Positioning? I toss it anywhere I can. The thing is damn near solid state and not that fragile. And I have all the data being displayed in VCM scanner so I have absolutely no need to really ever look at any of those gauges.

It can go in the glove box, the center console, the passenger seat, it can hang on the inside of the door for all I care. You mentioned the cost of the Ballanger twice in your short post. My best advice to you is get over that. And do it fast. We'll spend more in credits just to gain access to tune a single 2019 Silverado. Any one course from the Tuning school is more than the Ballanger AFR500. And when the Bosch sensor fails that first time the $150 you spend on the replacement sensor just put you at the cost of the Ballanger anyways.

I would like to offer a different perspective on that whole scene. Instead of splitting hairs and saying which is faster in a world where they are both more than fast enough maybe we could focus on durability? And for that Potential Tuner, Do your own diligence or at least go ask google about Bosch vs. NTK wideband sensors. Tune a vehicle with bad valve stem seals or other condition allowing excessive oil into the exhaust or a partially failing head gasket or bad intake gasket that allows in the coolant and you need to replace the Bosch sensor. NTK not so much. I think this is so much more of an important issue as the two are so close on the performance but so far apart on durability.

[ns158sl]

Ive been using the Ballenger AFR500C with the prolink. Problem is Lambda doesn't display correctly but AFR does. Support said to not use the prolink and use the supplied OBD2 passthrough to get lambda to work.