2016 C7 Z06 PE Enable %

[Alpine]

Do these PE throttle % and torque % values seem normal? My car is having some odd hesitation under part throttle conditions after getting a tune locally. These seem to correlate with entering PE at a lower RPM.

Mods -
TSP cam
kong x port blower
Cordes 5 inch intake
Longtube Headers
2.3 upper
IW 9% lower

New Tune 12-23.hpt

[GHuggins]

Just looking at it, you either live in Cali or the shop you used hired a certain somebody to do the tune for them. It looks identical to how he does all of them. Flatlined wot timing. Big cut in part throttle and cruise timing in fact you could possibly put that same timing table in all of his tunes. No VE editing with MAF only in focus. Big cut to the torque model in the idle region and so on and so on...

Now with that being said you'll have to point out exactly where in the log you're talking about to see if they correlate. You also need to only log the accelerator and tps pids that correlate to one another. I also don't see any of the wideband data displaying in the log. If I switch my scanner to plot commanded vs accel pedal position it shows 9ish % pedal and it randomly going 100% on commanded. Is this what you're feeling or asking about cause that would be an interesting bog/lug feel and sound. These are also all of the weird lean spikes at cruise. Torque model, VE, timing and DD will all play into this...

[Alpine]

Just looking at it, you either live in Cali or the shop you used hired a certain somebody to do the tune for them. It looks identical to how he does all of them. Flatlined wot timing. Big cut in part throttle and cruise timing in fact you could possibly put that same timing table in all of his tunes. No VE editing with MAF only in focus. Big cut to the torque model in the idle region and so on and so on...

Now with that being said you'll have to point out exactly where in the log you're talking about to see if they correlate. You also need to only log the accelerator and tps pids that correlate to one another. I also don't see any of the wideband data displaying in the log. If I switch my scanner to plot commanded vs accel pedal position it shows 9ish % pedal and it randomly going 100% on commanded. Is this what you're feeling or asking about cause that would be an interesting bog/lug feel and sound. These are also all of the weird lean spikes at cruise. Torque model, VE, timing and DD will all play into this...

I'm in Oregon not Cali but it definitely could be the same tuner lol. Yes, it does feel like how you described with the pedal/TPS percentage. I recently had this 103mm TB rebuilt by Nick but I do occasionally get P2119 code.

I was thinking the issue was either tune-related or from the TB actuator due to the P2119 code. I flashed my old tune which still has the part throttle hesitation but not nearly as bad. What PIDS Should I be logging that correlate with the pedal position?

I have attached the tune the car had on it originally. This tune drove perfectly fine when I first bought it which makes me think the TB actuator may be the culprit. Is the old tune better then the new tune? lmao

I appreciate your help!

[TriPinTaZ]

Given that the old tune has the PE enable at 65% and you still have the issue, I suspect the TB is failing again. We've seen a ton of the NW103's fail lately. So much so that we switched to Soler and don't purchase anymore NW stuff.

Your logs aren't going to be helpful here. You aren't monitoring much of anything, even Throttle Position. To start you should log Pedal Position and TPS(Throttle Position) Hi Res. Hi Res meaning when it asks you if you want to use SAE, say "no I know what I am doing." The SAE version of the TPS PID is incorrect for the Gen V's. Then take a look at your Throttle Position vs the Gas Pedal and see if the throttle is opening smoothly as commanded.

[Alpine]

Given that the old tune has the PE enable at 65% and you still have the issue, I suspect the TB is failing again. We've seen a ton of the NW103's fail lately. So much so that we switched to Soler and don't purchase anymore NW stuff.

Your logs aren't going to be helpful here. You aren't monitoring much of anything, even Throttle Position. To start you should log Pedal Position and TPS(Throttle Position) Hi Res. Hi Res meaning when it asks you if you want to use SAE, say "no I know what I am doing." The SAE version of the TPS PID is incorrect for the Gen V's. Then take a look at your Throttle Position vs the Gas Pedal and see if the throttle is opening smoothly as commanded.

Thank you! I will add those now. Would I be fine putting a stock throttle body to see if the problem persists? I'm assuming it would just be slightly rich?

[GHuggins]

It would be rich and down on boost and also may not act right due to the etc scaler. ETC scaler is enough to put back to stock. What I'm seeing doesn't really point to the tb as commanded is causing it to open, but anything's possible if the feedback loop is sending the wrong data and is compromised. I know right now I've got a Katech ported 95mm driving me nuts. Never before have I had to tune so many background tables to get a TB and engine to act right.......

[Alpine]

It would be rich and down on boost and also may not act right due to the etc scaler. ETC scaler is enough to put back to stock. What I'm seeing doesn't really point to the tb as commanded is causing it to open, but anything's possible if the feedback loop is sending the wrong data and is compromised. I know right now I've got a Katech ported 95mm driving me nuts. Never before have I had to tune so many background tables to get a TB and engine to act right.......

Here is a new log with the correct PIDs for TPS and Pedal. Unless im still logging the wrong PIDS they don't seem to align much.

[GHuggins]

Throttle position on yours should just be labeled as throttle position. I didn't see one for Hi res specific, but this one is what I normally use for all of them. Should come up as 2111.156.

If that's the one your showing then yes your throttle isn't opening. It's showing really high DD errors, but commanded is showing it to be commanded to open. I also see points where commanded goes to 100% for split seconds even though there is no pedal input at all. May just be a bad TB, but putting the stock one on will show something if it is.

DD Error-lt4.jpg

[TriPinTaZ]

I think the tune is just kind of not so great for drive-ability. I saw the TPS blip up to wide open but it looks like you were using the paddle shifters to downshift. The throttle blade mostly follows the pedal position but I think the airmass model is off and I would guess no VVE tuning was done. I'm not a fan of the tune at all to be honest.

If it didn't have this problem before, on the same tune, then I'm leaning towards failing throttle body or a vacuum leak has been introduced somewhere. You sure your catch can drain valve is closed? All the vacuum/pcv lines in place?
IF you have always had this issue, then I'd start wondering about the tune. It's kind of sloppy.

[Alpine]

Here is the log with the stock TB installed. It definitely drove better. I did slightly notice the hesitation between 2700-3200 but it wasn't nearly as bad and relatively inconsistent.

Do y'all think this is TB or tune related or both?

[GHuggins]

Redo the two above test with these channels that way we know the data being logged is correct.

Tune is junk for multiple reasons. Can see that just looking at it, but both logs are showing bad TB's which doesn't make sense at all. Commanded shows 30 some percent but both times actual tps is much lower. Both tb's show extremely large errors. Either something is bad wrong or just the wrong pids, so lets rule out pids first and foremost.

To use - download - right click - show in folder - right click - copy - open scanner - click on open recent channel config - open config - paste here and then click on.

We'll probably wind up making some general error corrections to the DD table too just to rule out one following the other. Label the logs when you post them as to which tb was installed too please when you make the next post.

[Alpine]

Redo the two above test with these channels that way we know the data being logged is correct.

Tune is junk for multiple reasons. Can see that just looking at it, but both logs are showing bad TB's which doesn't make sense at all. Commanded shows 30 some percent but both times actual tps is much lower. Both tb's show extremely large errors. Either something is bad wrong or just the wrong pids, so lets rule out pids first and foremost.

To use - download - right click - show in folder - right click - copy - open scanner - click on open recent channel config - open config - paste here and then click on.

We'll probably wind up making some general error corrections to the DD table too just to rule out one following the other. Label the logs when you post them as to which tb was installed too please when you make the next post.

Thank you! Please see the attached file utilizing the stock TB and rev match on.

[Alvin]

Given that the old tune has the PE enable at 65% and you still have the issue, I suspect the TB is failing again. We've seen a ton of the NW103's fail lately. So much so that we switched to Soler and don't purchase anymore NW stuff.

Your logs aren't going to be helpful here. You aren't monitoring much of anything, even Throttle Position. To start you should log Pedal Position and TPS(Throttle Position) Hi Res. Hi Res meaning when it asks you if you want to use SAE, say "no I know what I am doing." The SAE version of the TPS PID is incorrect for the Gen V's. Then take a look at your Throttle Position vs the Gas Pedal and see if the throttle is opening smoothly as commanded.

What have you seen fail? Or how are they failing?

He's local to me and has taken a lot of time to verify stuff/fix things if we find them. Which is super rare. This is surprising to hear. I'm sure he would fix it if you brought it up to him.

[GHuggins]

What have you seen fail? Or how are they failing?

He's local to me and has taken a lot of time to verify stuff/fix things if we find them. Which is super rare. This is surprising to hear. I'm sure he would fix it if you brought it up to him.

Nick is fantastic about fixing his stuff and leading the forefront on engineering for these, but for a short time period - not that long ago either - maybe 8 months ago he had a run of bad tp sensors and possibly motors. Not 100% on the motors. I know he was having a lot of tps issues. It was a bad parts supplier or something like that. I like Nick. Years ago talked to him and did some R&D for him. He's always backed his products...

To the OP I'll have to look at your log when I get back in a few.

[GHuggins]

Thank you! Please see the attached file utilizing the stock TB and rev match on.

Didn't realize I had become so dependent on logging actual tps compared to throttle and had removed the commanded throttle position from my channels especially since I use that a lot on the 19+ year models, so you'll need to add that into the channels otherwise this looks a whole lot better. It's opening - overly so - with rev matching (DD, pedal progression, torque model and VE issues), but the errors are a whole lot more to what I would expect being the DD is too high by about 30 to 50 % for the majority. Install the NW tb, add commanded to the channels and log again. Also run a stock etc scaler for it too since you're supposed to run a stock etc scaler with it.

[Alpine]

Didn't realize I had become so dependent on logging actual tps compared to throttle and had removed the commanded throttle position from my channels especially since I use that a lot on the 19+ year models, so you'll need to add that into the channels otherwise this looks a whole lot better. It's opening - overly so - with rev matching (DD, pedal progression, torque model and VE issues), but the errors are a whole lot more to what I would expect being the DD is too high by about 30 to 50 % for the majority. Install the NW tb, add commanded to the channels and log again. Also run a stock etc scaler for it too since you're supposed to run a stock etc scaler with it.

Sounds good. I will install the 103 TB and try this now. Where is the ETC Scaler located in the tune file?

[GHuggins]

Airflow - electronic throttle - max area

[Alpine]

Airflow - electronic throttle - max area

Here you go. The 103TB definitely makes the hesitation more pronounced and the stock TB seems to have better manners but that could just be tuning issues. The issue is most prominent between 2500rpm - 3500rpm and in 3rd gear and up.

Unfortunately, I had to trim the stock TB file as it was too large originally to attach.

[GHuggins]

Your welcome to try this one. It may be worse. Wouldn't think so but you never know. I sure didn't fix all of the problems and the tm changes may cause other issues with your DD table. You should also know that even though your previous tuner killed the cat test there are post O2 test that also run. I don't currently have a way to fix this one for yours so if you notice it getting hung lean while idling on a cold start then that's why, especially if you don't have them installed. All it takes is one being removed to cause that problem too.

You still need to retune your VE and correct other issues in the tune. In fact everything still needs to be tuned in, but this should be a little closer.

[GHuggins]

Oh, and the 103 tb looked fine in that log. It was just over opening causing the lean bogs.