E38 Lsa supercharger tuning issue, lost power when changed to PE

[stateman72]

Having an issue with a friends car he has just purchased . Engine is 416 ls3 with 1900 lsa supercharger 6 speed automatic . Vehicle not running right and advised maybe best starting from scratch on tune but he was able to get use of a friends dyno for a couple of hours so i thought we would have a bit of a play. Vehicle had the PE at 1.00 has tuned the whole fuel map this way , so i advise would be good to get it running on a PE table as would be easier to transfer info into tune . Anyway started doing this with reduced timing and for some reason will not make power on PE tune and goes into knock if try to put timing into it

timing scale adjustment.hptvf supercharged wagon.hptold 01.hpl10.hpl

[blindsquirrel]

Is this an airflow-scaled tune?

[blindsquirrel]

Injector data is wrong, you have a mix of referenced and returnless in there. Need to verify all the parts used, get the correct data for everything, then start over from scratch.

[blindsquirrel]

MAF is also not failed correctly. Someone competent needs to handle this or it is going to turn into a lot of expensive shrapnel.

[stateman72]

MAF is also not failed correctly. Someone competent needs to handle this or it is going to turn into a lot of expensive shrapnel.

[stateman72]

Has no MAF , the vf supercharged wagon is how he bought it . We had a couple of hours and just ran it to see how it looked . It's all over the place but still it runs ok up top , no knock and fuel looked ok on E85 and went 680rwhp , plugs look good . So i thought would see if it would work with PE working , fuel the same with less timing ( timing scale adjustment) . Just with a couple of changes, same fuel , less timing made 500rwhp . I will start this tune from scratch but was curious why turning the PE on would cause it to knock with 6 degrees timing in it ? Thanks

[blindsquirrel]

If it has a whole bunch of problems but you're only interested in fixing one specific thing while ignoring the rest, I'm not going to help with that.

[edcmat-l1]

V wagon VE.jpg

I'll say this as kindly as possible OP. If this is your work, and you're good friends with your friend and would like to stay good friends, you may want to tell him you're in over your head. There's nothing right in either calibration starting with the simplest most basic change, the displacement.

[JayRolla]

V wagon VE.jpg

I'll say this as kindly as possible OP. If this is your work, and you're good friends with your friend and would like to stay good friends, you may want to tell him you're in over your head. There's nothing right in either calibration starting with the simplest most basic change, the displacement.

Wow!

[stateman72]

Thanks , is going to get fixed next week

[edcmat-l1]

The VE table I posted is your work. You're in over your head. You aren't qualified to "fix" it as evidenced by the VE table you created.

Change log.jpg

This is the change log. This is your VE. You need to do your friend a favor and tell him you're not qualified to tune this vehicle. I'm not trying to be mean I'm telling you how it is. I've tuned a few hundred of these things.

[edcmat-l1]

20230130_075533_c.jpg

Here's 4 I built just last year. 2 of them are 418 strokers just like your friend's. 3 out of 4 here are 1000 hp motors.

[SiriusC1024]

20230130_075533_c.jpg

Here's 4 I built just last year. 2 of them are 418 strokers just like your friend's. 3 out of 4 here are 1000 hp motors.

Sexy. Part of the Fbody struggle is not being able to have cool stuff like that under the hood...under the dash lol.

[edcmat-l1]

Sexy. Part of the Fbody struggle is not being able to have cool stuff like that under the hood...under the dash lol.

Thank you. Have a 1k HP F body in the shop as well. PC 402 runs 9.60s on pump gas, street tires, just like I'll pull up to you at a light. 9.65@146 looks like a 12 second car. I built the whole car minus the trans.

[stateman72]

Again , not my tune . How he bought it . Just ran it to see .

[stateman72]

All i was interested in is the 2 logs and the difference between no PE and PE on , this has not be tuned ! All we did was turn on PE and reduce fuel to suit at wot and ran. It was just a question on why with the PE at 1.00 will not show knock at 23 degrees and the PE at 1.250 will. Same fuel ,less timing . I was just interested why ? Thanks

[edcmat-l1]

Again , not my tune . How he bought it . Just ran it to see .

All i was interested in is the 2 logs and the difference between no PE and PE on , this has not be tuned ! All we did was turn on PE and reduce fuel to suit at wot and ran. It was just a question on why with the PE at 1.00 will not show knock at 23 degrees and the PE at 1.250 will. Same fuel ,less timing . I was just interested why ? Thanks

That's completely dishonest. You posted 2 files. The one it came to you with and the one you modified. The one you modified has a change log that shows exactly what you did and when you did. And what you did shows your level of knowledge or expertise. And I'm saying based on your changes made you're unqualified to tune this person's vehicle. I posted a screen shot of that change log and it shows you repeatedly made changes to the VE table. Based on the fact that you don't recognize that the VE is completely unrealistic shows you simply don't know what you're doing. Again, not trying to be a dick I'm trying to tell you, you don't know what you're doing. It is in your best interest to step away. Heck just the fact you don't know the software well enough to know I/we can tell what's been done shows your level of experience.

Perhaps you should let your customer, the car owner, read through this thread and let him make the decision if he'd like to let you to continue.

[edcmat-l1]

Change log.jpg

This is the change log of the tune file you said "All I did was change the PE". Check out the red circle. See all the main VE changes? All those changes were made after you opened the base file. You can see it says "base file" at the bottom. It even has the dates and times for each change.

Before VE.jpg

This screen shot is the VE before you started making changes. It's terrible to begin with.

After VE.jpg

This is the VE in the tune file you posted as your own.

Denial is not a good look. It patently false, untruthful.

Just the fact you're here asking why it makes less HP when you whacked a bunch of timing out of it speaks to your level of ability.

Hate to keep bashing you but you're playing with someone's very expensive engine.

[stateman72]

Not trying to deceive you . Picked up car with the owner 2 days ago , drove it around 2 days ago and mucked around with PE and timing as tune was that bad would most likely start from scratch . Yesterday morning put on dyno and went from PE off and tune did not go into knock and Afr was fine. Turned PE on with same Afr and went into knock with 6 degrees less timing . If you can point out on the 2 logs were the tune is so bad that it's going to hurt itself i'm all ears . I was only curious as i have never seen a ls tune without using PE and why it did knock when it was turned on . Just wanted to understand why using PE would cause knock on any tune. P.s i'm not asking why it made less power with timing taken out , i was taking timing out because it was going into knock with the PE on, but you should know that with your level of ability

[SiriusC1024]

Thank you. Have a 1k HP F body in the shop as well. PC 402 runs 9.60s on pump gas, street tires, just like I'll pull up to you at a light. 9.65@146 looks like a 12 second car. I built the whole car minus the trans.

That's impressive. Especially street tires.