lsa tuning issue

[salatmann]

hi everyone I'm trying to tune my 09 ctsv but I'm running into an issue when dialing in the air frequency table. I will list the hardware I'm using for tuning along with the settings I'm editing in order to force the ecu into maf below the explanation of my issue.

the issue I'm having is that whenever I start the car it runs way over rich (6.7-7.4 lambda) so ill go out and drive and populate the histogram till I feel I have a good average in all the cells I can hit. then ill take the data from the histogram and copy that to my air frequency table using multiply percent half. the percentage in the cells is usually -20 when this happens so figure I'm pulling 10 percent fuel out. now here's where my issue develops ill load in the new file but the car will still idle at 6.7-7.4 lambda. if I go and drive it 2-3 miles and come to a stop it will then idle at 1.10 lambda (the limit of my WB setup) and the car is noticeably running rough. its as if there's a table I'm not disabling that's adding fuel on startup but goes away after a short drive.

the next issue I'm running into effects the rest of the air frequency table. starting out the car was running rich well say for example -10 to -15 percent for the 6150hz to 7050hz range in the histogram so ill take that and modify the air frequency table using multiply by percent half. then when I go to drive the car to gather more data there will be a dead lean spot in that same HZ range that causes the car to stumble and the histogram will report a 6-7 percent error which would be about the same amount of fuel I just removed. the only thing I can figure is that I'm getting bad data on decell. I had a similar issue when I was tuning the vve but I was able to get around it since the decell data only really effected the area below 35 KPA.


thanks in advance for any advice ill also include my tune file and my vcm scanner setup if i can.cts v2 headers afm tune 9.hpt


setting changed for maf tuning:
dynamic airflow high rpm disable set to 100 RPM
dynamic airflow high rpm Re-enable set to 8000 RPM
long term fuel trims min ect set to 400
long term fuel trims max ect set to 10
O2 reediness ect set to 400
COT set to disable
DFCO enable ect set to 400
DFCO dissable ect set to 399

car details:
09 CTS V
E67 ecm
long tube headers with 3 inch exhaust
flex fuel sensor
FIC 1000cc injectors
rotofab Cai

tuning hardware:
Ballenger AFR500c (data is brought into vcm scanner over can bus and O2 sensor is mounted about 8 inches from header collector)
mpvi2 interface

[GHuggins]

OK, so just a couple of things for you.

First and foremost. Make sure you injector data is correct. All of the tables, not just the flow rate table. They're FIC, so you should have good data for them no matter which FIC it is. I honestly didn't check the tune to see if it was entered right, so if you have then move on to the second...

Second. you're fighting rich after flash. Here's how to correct for it.

First you'll cold start the car and drive it. This is also granted you've dialed in inj timing already. I don't see a cam mentioned, but if running a cam this is important. Make your fuel corrections with the cold log. Don't get into any boost yet either. Let the car cool down since it's pretty far off then grab another cold log. Now you can hot flash the car and drive it. Use these trims as compared to your cold trim data to correct your injector tip temp table. .0078 is roughly 1% in most cases. Do this several times working back and forth and before long you'll have fuel staying right no matter the temp.

Also I recommend using trims to correct your fueling. Just kill long terms and drive it that way. Increase integrator delay 10% for the new O2 locations and then go from there.

[blindsquirrel]

You know how on some newer phones you can aim the camera at a page of foreign-language text and it will automatically translate it into your desired language? I'm wondering if there's one that will work here for when someone says 'FIC', to decode whether that means Fuel Injector Connection or Fuel Injector Clinic.

[salatmann]

OK, so just a couple of things for you.

First and foremost. Make sure you injector data is correct. All of the tables, not just the flow rate table. They're FIC, so you should have good data for them no matter which FIC it is. I honestly didn't check the tune to see if it was entered right, so if you have then move on to the second...

Second. you're fighting rich after flash. Here's how to correct for it.

First you'll cold start the car and drive it. This is also granted you've dialed in inj timing already. I don't see a cam mentioned, but if running a cam this is important. Make your fuel corrections with the cold log. Don't get into any boost yet either. Let the car cool down since it's pretty far off then grab another cold log. Now you can hot flash the car and drive it. Use these trims as compared to your cold trim data to correct your injector tip temp table. .0078 is roughly 1% in most cases. Do this several times working back and forth and before long you'll have fuel staying right no matter the temp.

Also I recommend using trims to correct your fueling. Just kill long terms and drive it that way. Increase integrator delay 10% for the new O2 locations and then go from there.

you're a life saver. now that i know what its called i found your other write ups on the subject. also explains why i never ran across this issue when i tuned my 04 CTSV. to answer some of your question the car still has the stock cam and i have not touched the injector timing tables yet. when i did the injector swap i added all the data provided from the FiC spreadsheet which included the (offset vs press vs IGNV) (short pulse adder) and (flowrate vs press) the rest of the tables i left stock since no new data was specified.

i do have a quick question on the process you mentioned.
first when you say to log it cold is there coolant temp i should stop at or should i log injector tip temp and stop logging when it gets to the first cell in the table with a pulse width modifier instead of a zero.
second im not quite sure what you mean when you say to use the hot flash trims compared to cold log trims to correct the injector tip temp table. are you saying to figure out how far off the two logs are from each other as a percentage then take that percentage out of the injector temp table.

[salatmann]

You know how on some newer phones you can aim the camera at a page of foreign-language text and it will automatically translate it into your desired language? I'm wondering if there's one that will work here for when someone says 'FIC', to decode whether that means Fuel Injector Connection or Fuel Injector Clinic.

you would think it would have dawned on me to specify since i run injectors from both company's in my cars. this car is running fuel injector clinic 1000cc injectors. sorry about that

[sgod1100]

That lean spot you speak of, does it happen to be around 2600ish rpms?

[GHuggins]

Yeah if it's at 17, 25 and I think there was one higher rpm then ignore those. Verlon's looking into it or possibly looking into it?

For the fuel corrections - Dial in cold up to the first cell that is populated or possibly even that cell. Dial in fuel corrections to less than 1% if you can. Hot flash and dial in those hotter tip temps to have that same error.

Hopefully that clarifies some things. Tip temp was discovered and added in by Scott (Jslic on here). He had his procedure for dialing it in and I found this method to be a little more accurate as it keeps air flowing through the engine compartment a little better while driving and because the rpms are up, it seems quicker doing it this way. You just have to make sure to stay out of boost and drive "grandma'ish"... Before this I personally did a lot of cussing. Almost ripped a steering wheel off a shop car once trying to get one right. Literally spent 2 hrs driving it around going in circles with trims going from +15 to -15 %'s... We've all been there and it sucks

[salatmann]

much better. i cant thank yall enough i spent a good 6 hours chasing my tail on this. i did notice when i was dialing in the vve that at 2500-2600 rpm it has a noticable hump from 45 kpa all the way up but now ill need to go back and work on those tables again once i get the maf and injector temp dialed in so that may change.

[sgod1100]

much better. i cant thank yall enough i spent a good 6 hours chasing my tail on this. i did notice when i was dialing in the vve that at 2500-2600 rpm it has a noticable hump from 45 kpa all the way up but now ill need to go back and work on those tables again once i get the maf and injector temp dialed in so that may change.

yyup, looks like you are suffering from that lean bump that many of us (including myself) are stuck on. I start a whole thread on this and like Ghuggins said above Verlon "may" be looking into it. No matter how much fuel you throw at the VVE in that area it won't richen up. If you increase the maf in those areas it will richen it up correctly, but if you hit those hz cells at different rpms you will be pig rich.

[sgod1100]

Here's the thread:

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...rpms-2014-ctsv

[Alvin]

the issue I'm having is that whenever I start the car it runs way over rich (6.7-7.4 lambda) so ill go out and drive and populate the histogram till I feel I have a good average in all the cells I can hit. then

This sounds like the wideband isn't hot and ready to go. Post a log and we can decide. Also your units don't make sense. Lambda should be around 0.7-1.3 at extremes

[salatmann]

This sounds like the wideband isn't hot and ready to go. Post a log and we can decide. Also your units don't make sense. Lambda should be around 0.7-1.3 at extremes

you're right just a typo should be .67-.74 lambda. i did get the issue sorted out what GHuggins suggested was dead on the money.