2019 Ford F150 with a VMP Loki blower. It gets major throttle oscillation between 25 and 35% throttle. Looking for advice. Zero'd out tip in detonation tables and the problem remains the same. Log and tune attached.
2019 Ford F150 with a VMP Loki blower. It gets major throttle oscillation between 25 and 35% throttle. Looking for advice. Zero'd out tip in detonation tables and the problem remains the same. Log and tune attached.
Torque model is hacked in mid range, DD table set in funny way like for turbo, entering PE way too soon
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I have changed the DD and Torque Model tables in the mid range six ways to Sunday. It does not change the problem at all. The early PE doesn't affect it at all either. It was doing it with the PE enrichment set to come in much later. I lowered the PE enrichment because I'm not comfortable with the engine making 6-7psi from a 2650 blower at partial throttle without extra fuel.
DD table took out the oscillation. All is well now. Thanks.
What did you do? Reduce it or increase it?Originally Posted by Hippo
Nothing justifies entering PE so early and this brings only issues.
P.S. you should fix TM not DD. Changing DD will not solve this
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You're right it just moved it around. I spent all weekend adjusting the torque tables. I used a dyno to rough out the actual torque values near and in the problem areas then looked at what the TR and Air load was doing. Everytime it starts jittering the air load eclipses desired airload, TR shoots up and the throttle goes haywire. I set up my torque and inverse tables to fix this issue and the problem continues. Tried locking it in MP15 and just working on that table and still cannot get the throttle jitter out of this thing. Adjusting the torque tables so far has just moved the problem elsewhere. I'm going to keep plugging away at it but it's extremely frustrating.
See if this attached file helps. Do a compare and see the changes I made and apply them to your latest file. 2019 F150 VMP Tune-1.hpt
It made the oscillation happen in a much more finite area so it's helping with tuning, I appreciate it. The issue still remains and it's definitely related to the torque tables. Air Load surpasses Desired Load around the .65 to 1 air load range and it goes haywire. Not as bad thanks to some of your adjustments but I believe the core of the issue still remains. I'll just have to keep plugging away at it and doing research. I'll update if I figure this out by myself.
Last edited by Hippo; 02-06-2024 at 02:57 PM.
Your distance tables are wonky. Could be the issue. Everything here looks way off.
Screenshot 2024-02-06 201529.png
I guess I'm just not understanding why the desired air load stays so much lower than the actual air load when the supercharger comes into boost. Actual air load eclipses desired air load, IPC errors fire up and the throttle issue starts. Thanks to the changes given to me before the throttle is much more stable so I've run it on a dyno to check torque. The real world torque and actual air load vs. torque table data is fairly accurate. However the truck will report 250ft lbs at 2500rpm while the actual air load is 1.0, the supercharger is making 5-6psi and the real world torque is closer to 350ft lbs.
I've changed the DD table, ETC area and TT tables but this issue persists with this load mismatch. Feel free to go full Gordon Ramsay on me. I feel like an idiot sandwich.
Here's a log after I changed the TT tables back to Whipple's base file. Getting to the bottom of this air load and desired load mismatch seems to be what I need to figure out.
F150 Load Log Dyno 2.hpl
F150 Load Log Dyno 3.hpl
Last edited by Hippo; 02-07-2024 at 04:01 PM.
There's a lot going on here. Youre getting KR almost everywhere. Leave ETC alone. Look at this picture and make it make sense to me. Loads not matching could be a handful of things but they seem to be way off. Usually the cause is SD model being scuffed or Torque tables scuffed or both. Both could use some work. Nothing is smooth about it. Hint : on the torque and sd tables bring up the 3D model it will help get a visual of whats going on.
k.png
Last edited by Pistol_91; 02-07-2024 at 05:36 PM.
It's adding timing, not retarding other than a little bit in the areas where I'm having the load mismatch issue. I used the Whipple SD tables, TTL and VCT tables to start with. I'll fix the wonky distance tables and see what happens, although I have noticed when locking the truck in one mapped point to try and isolate the issue the cams did not lock into that single position and continued to operate normally. With the fuel trims being as close as they are in the problem area and the injector data solid could the SD map still be causing this issue?
This is 6 degrees of knock retard.... it is literally all over the log. Not a lot but there is a little bit. Your timing isn't even advanced much so it shouldn't be doing this. SD can def cause your desired load and air load to be completely different but it would not make your car drive this badly unless it was completely fucked. I think you have a combination of Torque model, DD, SD and distance tables causing your issues. Do you see what I'm saying with the mapped points and cam angles that are enabled/disabled and the mapped points that are currently being commanded through the distance tables. It makes no sense. This tune is commanding mapped points that aren't enabled at all and on top of that, those disabled mapped points are the ones that are designated to the IMRCs being closed. Try adjusting the distance tables because the car can definitely run like dog shit if they're not correct. I have never looked at the Whipple tune, but I have looked at a Roush tune. I have not heard anything good about the Whipple tune. Post that tune if you have it, unless its literally exactly the same as the one you already posted here.
ok.png
Last edited by Pistol_91; 02-07-2024 at 10:17 PM.
Still trying to figure out this load/torque mismatch. I've been all over the DD table trying to reel the blower and IPC error in. Am I on the right track?
Still getting knock on the low end. You changed nothing of that which is going to fix your issue. DD is not going to fix your load problem like veefour said. Raising that up a percentage from stock is basically the only time you ever have to touch DD. The torque and torque inverse tables and SD tables will fix your issue.
Part throttle shift schedule is odd.
It seems like you have skip shift eliminated below 30% throttle, but the OSS speeds are one shift off. IE in base your 1-2 would be a stock 2-3. Your 2-3 would be a stock 3-4. Your 4-5 would be a stock 3-4.
Its causing the transmission to hunt too much for the right gear as its more aggressive than sport mode. 20-40 OSS tighter through out the throttle range.
You may want to watch that 6-8, or 7-9 skip shift at WOT you have in your tables.
This is all you have to do to eliminate the part throttle skip shift.
Stock skip shift elimination.png
Its just a simple flip flop of the normal shift and the skip shift in those areas.
Reffering to this area in the log where it trys to do a quick 2-3-4 then TCC lockup at 25% throttle. I think thats what you are feeling as oscillation.
2-3-4.png
Last edited by murfie; 02-10-2024 at 02:02 PM.
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