should have done bushings not bearings

[SiriusC1024]

Right, because the drip-drip-drip of oil metered up through the pushrods is splash lube exactly the same as the oil-everywhere constantly churned up inside the crankcase and slung off the crank's rod throws directly onto the underside of the piston is splash lube. I sure don't see any difference in those now that I think about it, thanks for pointing it out.

It's still not pressurized and just coats parts. The volume of oil slung around doesn't affect how much is forced between metal. It's surface finish, tolerances, movement, and viscosity. All the bushings have to do is stay wet. If there's enough oil for the trunnion bearings then there's enough for the bushings. The good bushing kits have oil grooves.

Where volume matters for splash lube is cooling.

[edcmat-l1]

Those needle bearing trunnions belong in the trash.

I'm still not getting it. Tens of millions of OE parts out there running billions of combined miles.

Brian Tooley does more Spintron testing than probably the combined rest of the aftermarket, and they have purposely chosen to go with needle bearings over bushings.

Tell us what you know that they don't.

[SiriusC1024]

I run bushings. You don't have to if you don't want to. It's not like I make a commission off the things.

I mean BTR sells plenty of cams for Gen III over .551 lift. We all know that the valve tips start to wipe and valve guides wear at that point. Nothing to argue about. Just consequences and facts. I know I won't have any blown out trunnions anymore. That's enough for me.

[04silverado6.0]

I had a set of bushings(Smith Bros?) wear almost immediately in a 6.0 with stage 3 btr truck cam .553 lift and matching springs. Maybe 6k miles-ish the bushings were wore completely through on nearly half the rockers. I bought a new-used set of rockers and installed the v2 btr kit probably 20k ago. Probably should check them as i have some valvetrain noise and quite a bit of glitter on the magnet at 3k oil change.

[biholliday]

that is the reason i even checked my BTR upgraded rockers because of excessive noise which i thought was due to installing solid motor mounts from ssonly website. you see i recently posted a thread concerning a set of circuitwerks 2 inch headers which i heavily modified for my chevy ss sedan and my problem was that the header rubbed against the frame when under heavy acceleration so i figured id just put the solid mounts on and keep the engine still and the rubbing will go away. well it worked but then i could hear EVERYTHING including the whole rotating assembly with the solid mounts no bushings. my wife and i drove to laughlin to eat at bubbagumps and the valvetrain noise was horrible. the next day is when i decided to pull off the passenger side valve cover and discovered a crooked rocker. since then i have installed the CHE bushings and am waiting for the stock hydraulic motor mounts because as it turned out the original mounts were broken allowing the headers to rub in the first place. i could just bush the solid mounts but im thinking the stocks are hydraulic to keep the vibration to a minimum and i dont want to take a chance of hearing the engine droning in the cabin like it was. Anyways i know this is not about "tuning" but i want to thank everyone for their input

[biholliday]

by the way i have been running the engine for 3 days with about 20 needle bearings unaccounted for and have not had any issue and the filter element had the same amount of trash as it always has so im not gonna worry

[Billyo234]

if you have done a BTR trunion upgrade you might want to peek at your rockers soon and make sure they all look straight or take one off to check the wear on the bearings that you were trying to avoid the stock ones from doing to your engine releasing needles in the oil. My question is does the pick up tube have a screen on it ? and if so will the needle bearings fit through the screen or keep them from entering the oil pump? i found about 12 needles on top around the springs and none in the oil. gonna do a CHE bushing to all rockers and then push SEND. I think i did the cam at 50000 miles and now im at 91000 so the trunions held up for 40000 miles. last time i had it on the scanner it had 59lbs of oil pressure at idle

Maybe something has changed in the last 10 months since you?ve posted this but the btr kit that I got the bearings don?t ride on the trunion the trunion has an inner race pressed on it when manufactured and when u assemble the bearing contact the race not the trunion

[biholliday]

must be a new design?

[abc]

When I was trying to make the decision of roller brg. or bushing about a year ago, I did notice BTR was advertising a GEN 2 version of their trunion upgrade kit. I think they did go to a caged brg. insert that has a dedicated inner race so it's rollers are not directly riding on the trunion.
I believe the OE brg. is just fine and or much better than what most of the aftermarket could come up with due to their exhaustive testing processes. The issue became about when the end cap that holds the rollers in the rocker arm falls out. The aftermarket solved that with the snap rings but I think they failed with the heat treatment part of the brgs. and trunion. That is the reason I went with bushings, although I would have prefered going with roller brgs. if there is a known bullet prof set up.
I started going down the path of known good aftermarket rocker arms, but I didn't take the time to understand the weight implications that most aftermarket rocker arms come with.

[blindsquirrel]

The BTR shaft kit is good. Real bearing steel for the shafts. It uses the same roller bearings as other kits, the difference between works & doesn't work is the shaft/trunnion material. I honestly don't know how they can sell that kit for $300, given the shaft material and the steel stands.

edit: https://briantooleyracing.com/btr-ls...ocker-kit.html

[ineptmath]

im currently running a bushing kit like che but a no brander, having no issues at present engines abit sewing machine but i think that would be my error. and its also holding up with me doing crazy crap learning to tune.

just scored a free set of the aforementioned btr shaft kits from a mate who had a engine failure and needed the engine pulled and i cant wait to give em a try, they are like close to 1k aud haha.

also ran the oem needles at constant 5-6k digs didnt have any of the issues ive seen plastered everywhere. another 6.0l build ive just done with a 215/225 @112 583int/ex which has seen a few decent pulls @ 6k seem fine and engines quiet af i guess because of the lift.

but full disclosure the engine failure that the btr kit came from had the needles go on it before the kit and before the engine failure haha (3 shattered pistons hole in block, this guy would ride the limiter) on a 227/244? @ 114 607/610 no evidence they ever got back past the pickup/screen or did any dmg to the pump

[biholliday]

i started this post 9 months ago and wanted to give an update. no issues so far and this car is my wifes daily. she is even happy with the tune that ive done myself with the help of the great tuners on this forum so thank you all

[marksrig]

I guess I'm not understanding this. I have a BTR V2 trunnion upgrade and cannot see how the needles can come out seeing as they have washers on the ends held in with circlips. How could they escape? Currently at 17,000 miles on them.

[pannetron]

My money is on shaft mounted rockers to control side flex -- YellaTerra Ultralights. Couple places now sell kits to shaft mount OE rockers. For high lift cams, I like roller tips.

[Alvin]

I've never had roller tip rockers not make less power than stock..

Always have valve control issues. Other tuners have mentioned the same thing on here before.

[pannetron]

I've never had roller tip rockers not make less power than stock..

Always have valve control issues. Other tuners have mentioned the same thing on here before.

Hmmm, learned something new today! I was trying to minimize guide wear by using roller tip rockers.

[blindsquirrel]

I believe Spintron has shown that lots of times the tip rollers slide on valve open anyway, and only roll on valve close.

[GHuggins]

Smokey always found bushings to make more power just from the changing directions of the extra mass not being there. Another oddball fact. Did you know most of the heat in an engine is built from the valve springs contracting and expanding? Whole reason NASCAR engines submerge the springs in oil using blockoffs and drain pipes Another thing spintrons revealed...

Ok, everything aside am I understanding things correctly when it was previously hinted that the rollers were redesigned? Only asking because it seemed like I had a lot of customers with failures about 7 months ago and then no more problems since.

[Alvin]

I believe Spintron has shown that lots of times the tip rollers slide on valve open anyway, and only roll on valve close.

It's basically a fidget spinner in a spot you can't spare any weight.

It would be interesting to go back and try a A-B test on a SBC. Back in the day if you didn't build a SBC without full roller rockers.. what were you doing ? I'll bet the winning combo is roller fulcrum / solid tip?

[pannetron]

Interesting Spintron info, good to know, thanks for sharing! More stuff to discuss at PRI next month.