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Thread: Timing Tuning off EGT

  1. #1
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    Timing Tuning off EGT

    So I was considering getting an AEM EGT guage and feeding the output to the MPVI3 via a prolink analog channel. kingtal0n did a good writeup on timing tuning via EGTs in the post "Timing tuning in boost". Using a wideband it is "easy" to dial in lambdas for the VE table, PE tuning etc.... but timing is where the danger lies. Since most of us do not have direct access to a dyno or want to travel to and pay for repeated dyno sessions I thought this method would be an accurate way to get "good" timing values albeit not tip of the sword most power but better than seat of the pants tuning by far (and way safer). kingtal0n also made a great explanation of why a peak torque dyno tune can be disastrous on the street (in the "wild" load and temp mixed with edge timing settings can go boom or clank clank). For more information on using EGT to tune and the why on were to set the timing read the post linked below. I would love to hear from kingtal0n on how he would use an EGT guage for street tuning timing. My plan is to log EGT against cylinder air mass and engine speed as the base timing table is. Save the table adjust timing, rinse and repeat until I find the timing that causes EGT to rapidly increase then add a couple degrees and save it as the timing value for the cell(s) This seams like a good plan to get timing to where I know its not too retarded and not close to detonation. I will still go to the dyno on occasion for refining my maps but they should be really close with this timing tuning and VE refinement using a wideband. Thoughts?


    Timing-tuning-in-boost


    AEM EGT Guage 30-0305

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  2. #2
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    True way to do torque is cylinder pressure transducer, second best is engine dyno. third is chassis dyno. Problem with the DIYer and EGT's is knowing what to look for. Plus adjusting timing is mostly shooting for most torque. EGT isnt going to tell you that. Id get all your ducks in a row and rent a dyno if you want to delve into true timing optimization.

  3. #3
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    I think that should work for tuning cruise timing. You would probably not have great results on the street, a controlled environment like a dyno would be your best bet with the egt probe. I think within 10* of optimum you would not have a change worth noting at cruise in egt, where the dyno torque reading would prove superior.

  4. #4
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    Take anything that kingtal0n post with a grain of salt. He talks a good game, but be cautious with anything that is different from what the established tuners are doing. He may have some good ideas, but it’s hard to filter through some of the BS.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by gtstorey View Post
    Take anything that kingtal0n post with a grain of salt. He talks a good game, but be cautious with anything that is different from what the established tuners are doing. He may have some good ideas, but it’s hard to filter through some of the BS.
    Like a cult leader sucking people in with a bit of truth before the utter nonsense starts. Think Jim Jones, except the mass suicide will be all the motors his advice helped tune.

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtstorey View Post
    Take anything that kingtal0n post with a grain of salt. He talks a good game, but be cautious with anything that is different from what the established tuners are doing. He may have some good ideas, but it’s hard to filter through some of the BS.
    Really? So the guy who's a Doctor scientist engineer tuner might be full of shit? I mean, he wrote cancer papers n shit. All you had to do was look at his own personal tune file to know what he didn't know.
    Last edited by edcmat-l1; 02-24-2024 at 07:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edcmat-l1 View Post
    Really? So the guy who's a Doctor scientist engineer tuner might be full of shit? I mean, he wrote cancer papers n shit. All you had to do was look at his own personal tune file to know what he didn't know.
    Link to post containing said file? Im surprised his caliber of tuning is not on top secret government ufo conspiracy fort knox lockdown.

  8. #8
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    Just wow!.jpg

    I don't have a link to the thread but I have his tune file on another laptop. I'll post it up later today. This is a screen shot of his VE table. Guy insisted it was spot on. Then went on to argue with me the definition of VE. If you search my posts a few months back you'll find it.

    The guy was a total BSer and needed to be run off. If someone you knew lied repeatedly about everything about themselves I'm sure you'd call them out.

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  9. #9
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    Have you read the cancer research papers? It's basically His Professorship and a couple buddies go to the local butcher, get some pig throats from the hotdog pile, freeze them, then throw them into a blender with some dish washer detergent. The results were that the cells did indeed disintegrate. Science.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pblawler View Post
    ?until I find the timing that causes EGT to rapidly increase then add a couple degrees?.
    I aaume that you mean to SUBTRACT a couple of degrees here? I don?t have the timing/EGT drawing that ?doctor king? posted awhile back, but it shows the supposed increase of EGT that added timing will cause without much increase in power output when you start getting into the ramp up of EGT. You would want to be towards the bottom of the ramp for a safety margin. The problem is that, even seeing an increase in EGT, you don?t know where you are at in the ramp. How much is a big jump in temp, is it 20 degrees, 30, or ?

    I was thinking of putting in a momentary switch to add, say 5 degrees timing via the ECT timing adder chart, so that I could change timing on the fly during a steady state drive, then review the log to look at fueling and EGT changes at the timing add, mainly for cruise conditions. Not sure if the EGT data will be useful in this case, but would be an interesting test. Either way, not planning on tigging a bung in the exhaust unless it has to come off for some other reason.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcmat-l1 View Post
    Just wow!.jpg

    I don't have a link to the thread but I have his tune file on another laptop. I'll post it up later today. This is a screen shot of his VE table. Guy insisted it was spot on. Then went on to argue with me the definition of VE. If you search my posts a few months back you'll find it.

    The guy was a total BSer and needed to be run off. If someone you knew lied repeatedly about everything about themselves I'm sure you'd call them out.
    Im curious which tables were jacked up to produce that ve. Looks like negligence while wideband tuning pe.

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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  13. #13
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    I tune my spark by averaging the variable weight over time of a European Swallow (at first I was using African Swallows but that, for obvious reasons, did not work). But the method I have settled on works exactly as well as trying to use EGTs.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    I tune my spark by averaging the variable weight over time of a European Swallow (at first I was using African Swallows but that, for obvious reasons, did not work). But the method I have settled on works exactly as well as trying to use EGTs.
    Dumbass. That only works if your exhaust is the size of a coconut, lol.
    edit-- Now that I have attacked you, perhaps I should run away before being hit with flying cows.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gametech View Post
    perhaps I should run away before being hit with flying cows.
    You have to admit, that is a brutally effective tactic on so so many levels.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    You have to admit, that is a brutally effective tactic on so so many levels.
    What is this, a quiz? I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

  17. #17
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    One of the crossbeams' gone out of skew on the treadle...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04silverado6.0 View Post
    Im curious which tables were jacked up to produce that ve. Looks like negligence while wideband tuning pe.
    Quote Originally Posted by edcmat-l1 View Post
    Looks like he bandaided it with injector data and PE. What the hell is this tune supposed to be?
    Dr IFR.png

    Dr SPA.png

    Good riddance.
    https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post761427
    Last edited by SiriusC1024; 02-25-2024 at 07:53 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    One of the crossbeams' gone out of skew on the treadle...
    And now for something completely different...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcmat-l1 View Post
    Sweet tune. Might copy and paste that for a customer, not a good customer though. Not the same calibrator but tell me how this boost tune was supposed to run. Truck had engine failure in a quick manner.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by 04silverado6.0; 02-25-2024 at 11:24 PM.