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Thread: 2008 TBSS part/low throttle knock

  1. #1
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    2008 TBSS part/low throttle knock

    Howzit,
    I was hoping someone with more experience could help me identifying the cause of some knock I've been getting on my 08 TBSS with fairly high mileage 170K. I'm totally a novice with HP tuners, I know how to do the basic functions but have a hard time deciphering my scans what I should be looking at, what's normal, etc. I have a little experience with modern fuel injection but not much, I had 3 87 GN's in my past and those were probably the simplest form of EFI there was, the 06 Chrysler in my sig was the newest car I'd ever owned, electronic throttle was a whole new ball game to me lol... I paid a tuner to do the tuning and later tailored it to my liking after.

    The TBSS is pretty much all stock down to the paper filter with the exception of a 160 thermostat and TR6 plugs cause I read that those were supposed to help with KR. I've only owned it for about a year now and driven 10K miles and the PO ghosted after the sale so its pretty much unknown history before that. But I assume this was happening the vehicles whole life. I read 08's in particular are programmed with a lot of knock in them, not too sure what to make of that but just something I read.

    So upon logging the stock tune with the scanner out of curiosity I noticed there was some knock occurring at low RPMs, I could never feel it, hear it, and if the scanner wasn't logging I wouldn't know it was happening. The trend I can notice from seat time is it seems to happen at throttle tip in, its not even really tip in I would say, but any non-slow and smooth press of the pedal seems to make it happen. I purposely did some jabs at the throttle in log 11.1 to make it happen. The other logs just show it happening, this is driving to and from work, mostly freeway driving.

    Initially I suspected it was burst knock cause it was happening at such low RPM, not much throttle and no engine mods done. It always looks like a mountain peak and decays down like that, I've never seen to sustain/flat line before. So I tried to turn burst knock down but it still seems to happen. I also backed off some timing from my old logs that I took in those areas it was catching it. It still happens even if I keep taking out progressively more and more timing but it makes the truck feel really sluggish so I put some back in tune 11.1. I did also try some Royal purple "octane booster" to see if that would help, it seemed like it might have been less but hard to definitively say cause I know its not really raising the octane much if any and it still was knocking at the same trend so it could have been the placebo effect.

    Anyway I was hoping someone more experienced than me could help decipher if this is something tune related or something mechanical that needs to be addressed, or is this normal operation for this year and platform. That's where my inexperience comes in, I don't really know how to analyze what I'm looking at enough to make a confident correction. Nor do I have anything similar to compare to.

    I was also trying to log the MAF to possibly adjust the calibration so that's why LTFT's and VE are off. I think the AFR is somewhat close in CL cause in previous logs the fuel trims didn't seem too far off.

    Thanks in advance!! Appreciate any insight


    Rev 11.1.hpt
    rev 11.1.hpl
    log 11.1.2.hpl
    log 11.1.4.hpl
    2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8
    NGC3 CAN PCM/EGS53 TCM
    Stock

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Just zero out ECM 12765 to disable Burst Knock, it's really not needed and will at the very least let you see if your KR is real knock or that predictive B.S.

  3. #3
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Looking at more stuff and given the history (or lack thereof), it might be a good idea to go back to a stock tune and then tune it properly. There's some shady shit going on - P0601-P0607 & P2138 DTCs disabled. There's no legit reason to ever do that. And 'MAF-only' with the VVE completely untouched. This is a hack tune done by a lazy person.

  4. #4
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    Roger that, thanks., I never would have known those codes were turned off. For clarification, I did not have anyone do a tune… I was tinkering around with stuff. But I did NOT turn those codes off, I did purchase a replacement ecm (thought something was wrong with the original, turned out to be a crank sensor) that was flashed by the company they asked for the vin so I assumed it was a carbon copy of the original I took out. Clearly it wasn’t, I shouldn’t have assumed that and I can only assume it was them that turned those codes off. I will put the original ecm back in.
    2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8
    NGC3 CAN PCM/EGS53 TCM
    Stock

  5. #5
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    I intend to leave it stock for a while, I was just thinking the factory tune could be optimized and was going to attempt to do it myself.
    2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8
    NGC3 CAN PCM/EGS53 TCM
    Stock

  6. #6
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    A stock tune can absolutely be improved, it's just the way to do that is tune MAF & VVE based on collecting data, and then tweaking spark tables, and then making changes like shift speeds and whatnot to your personal preference.

  7. #7
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    sounds good, thanks!! U was attempting to collect data at this point.
    2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8
    NGC3 CAN PCM/EGS53 TCM
    Stock

  8. #8
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    The 08's are a bit more sensitive to knock. But these also knock easy in a loaded up cruise/pass someone but not with enough throttle to downshift or unlock the converter.

    If you take timing out in that spot and it continues after a few revisions you can start desensitizing the knock sensors. I very rarely desensitize GEN 4 knock sensors. Normally they are on point.

    I don't know what CAI you have on them but that makes the biggest difference in knock sensitivity. A lot of aftermarket kits like K&N for the TBSS especially leak a ton of hot air in and will get them to knock all over.
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  9. #9
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    With the mileage, if it came in my shop first thing we'd do is a good Seafoam induction service. Then put a catch can on it. Maybe put a can of Seafoam in a half tank of fuel to give it some more cleaning. And a new set of plugs. Chances are the KR would majikally go away.

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  10. #10
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    And new upstream O2s.

  11. #11
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    And new upstream O2s.
    Yep left them out. I have no problem replacing O2s almost as frequently as spark plugs.

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  12. #12
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    Thank you all! Really appreciate the guidance and suggestions!

    Alvin - The intake is the stock air box with paper filter, I kind of stayed away from an aftermarket air intake due to those exact reasons you stated… not sure how well the factory one does regarding that either tho. That makes a lot of sense and seems to be about where the knock is occurring, it’s easiest for me to log on highway type driving but it also will do it lower gears as well I notice.

    Edcmat - sounds good to me, I’ve been trying to run fuel system cleaner through every now and again. The only things I’ve done to the truck are maintenance stuff that the PO either neglected or lied about, it’s leaking oil from a lot of places so I did the upper engine gaskets (valve cover, valley cover, and intake manifold) plus the oil pan gasket so far… when I had the intake off there was a lot of carbon build up on the intake as well as the backs of the valves where fuel doesn’t hit.

    Blind - I will also look into new o2s, my initial thought with a tune up was to do them but I saw they were switching pretty actively on the logs so I held off (I didn’t realize how critical the o2s feedback are to cl fueling in newer vehicles!). Will try and get those done soon. And you were totally spot on with the tune being wonky! I swapped back in the original pcm that the truck came with and when I opened the comparison tool there were quite a few differences ( mostly things turned off or set to ignore). Before I randomly checked a few tables and they all seemed to match up so I assumed everything else was good, could’ve been a costly assumption on my part!

    Thanks again everyone, I will update as my journey continues.
    Last edited by Slag; 02-29-2024 at 09:32 PM.
    2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8
    NGC3 CAN PCM/EGS53 TCM
    Stock

  13. #13
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    We sorta specialize in TBSS stuff. We sell a ton of parts for them and have been doing them since they were brand new. The 2008's have always been touchy about knock retard. The rare 09's even a bit worse. Seafoam isn't a bad idea especially for mileage but it is a thing with 08 TBSS
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  14. #14
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    Gotcha alvin, I was considering you but I thought maybe tuning a basically stock truck wouldn't be worth your guys time.

    Been meaning to do a traditional in the intake seafoam treatment but haven't gotten around to it plus finding a remote spot for the smoke show lol
    2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8
    NGC3 CAN PCM/EGS53 TCM
    Stock