Mercedes 2014 E63 amg 5.5 m157 engine tunning

[BetoRibeiro]

Hello all, I live in brazil, and started this week the process of learning and tunning my car.
I have past experiencies with programable ECUs (fueltech/motec) but this mercedes tune i got with HPtuners mpvi3 interface is really diferente from all I have seen.
My goal is e50 tune, so i can get a more cooler and powerfull engine. After it runs smooth with the e50 tune, I will work on getting more boost, my car is 550hp spec in the owners manual, and the boost only go to arround 10 psi max.
I have atatched the stock read from my car, and also the tunned file I achieved in this few days of studing and testing.

In the fueling side, the best I managed is upping the "injector pulse multiplier" by 15% (x1,15), and the injector slope by 1 point ( from 0,018 to 0,019) this made the car ok driving arround slow, but at WOT it is too rich by the logs.
I need to correct fueling for the cold part of operating, like a morning start , it happened today and car car almost stalled sometimes, misfiring, must proprably from a lean condition when car is cold, as etanol mix need much more fuel in this warn up period.
Can some share some tips on this cold ECT fueling, where can it be adjusted?
And the high end boosting fueling?

I also noted that there is little ECU information I can get with the MPVI3/scanner for logging, most of the o2 and lambda info seens to be calculated, not actual, am I wrong? Should i install a third part lambda sensor for unning this car, or can i rely on the lambda from the vcm scanner/ECU ?

Thanks in advance, and hoping to get some orientation.

[chevota]

That Scanner run is pretty wonky. Lets try to clean it up a bit first. It looks to me like you're dumping waay to much fuel when cold, and way too much under load. It's very confusing so lets use my tune so we can get a better Scanner run.

The cold start fuel, from what I can tell, is based on fuel trims at last closed loop shutdown. So if you change Slope and/or Inj PW, then start it, it'll be screwed up because it says I need xx fuel based on last time I ran. So if you added 20% fuel you'll be 20% rich until the O2 sensors kick on and it figures out wth is going on. That's my theory anyway, based on messing around with it many times. So in short, you need to get into closed loop with your new settings before it'll work right on cold start. In your case you also had the Cat fuel mix all jacked up so it made things much worse.
It seems that same Cat setting is causing you other issues, like very retarded spark timing under full load. This is especially bad because that makes the exhaust much hotter. And of course makes no power.

Excluding the mod I did to make it idle better in E50, I left your InjPW oem, but bumped Slope 20%. That should work as a good base on E50 to see what it's doing.
So try this one I tweaked and make new logs so we can see what's going on. This is not really tuned to make more power, but I did do a few basic things and copied your Max Torque Driver Input change because it doesn't hurt anything. Things that do hurt it, do nothing, or make things confusing, I left oem. We can easily tweak for more power once we have a clean Scanner run to see how it's doing.
Don't ever make a fuel change and get on it in open loop, because if it's lean, then full load will no doubt be lean. Shouldn't really be getting on it that soon anyway, but at least for now, wait until you see the O2 sensors are working. In fact, for now, wait until they're working before you drive it, or even rev it. So just start it and leave it be until the O2's work. Should take ~5 min. Then drive it until more or less warned up and make a full throttle run, or more.


I see you also have a lean issue, like I now have for some reason and I've yet to figure out why. Eg on your run at time stamps 7:25:56.5 and 7:25:59
This has been haunting me for many months and you can see my post about it:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...n-t-figure-out
I can't help you there since I haven't figured it out, but it adds credence to my theory that HP is the cause.

stk read chevota1.hpt

[BetoRibeiro]

Hi chevota, i did the log a few minutes ago.
The car started and stalled two times, so i hold on trothle for a fez seconds and after a minute it stabilized in the idle.
I did a long run, mostly in second gear (traffic) , to let the car addapt, when i got to clear road i did a few WOT runs, the cars feels good, atatched is the log file.
After your analises whe can discuss, initialy I saw it is still very rich on high top (under boost) , and the STFT kicks in a lot when in idle.

Thanks again for the help and info.

[chevota]

I see that .760 Lambda command is still there, and your spark is still very retarded under load. I don't see a reason for either so it's rather confusing.
So here's my theory; I think someone else tuned it using some other program, then maybe undid it, but they didn't undo it 100% and missed some things? I see your "oem" top speed and a Wheel Torque settings don't look oem, which I've seen before and I always assume it meant a tune done not done with HP.

Or, maybe, if a tuner made new fuel and spark maps to make it more difficult to copy their tune? I would, and it would explain why your maps are oem but it isn't following them.
Since I can only speculate on that, I would write a known stock file over it to wipe it clean. Meaning with KESS or KTAG, not HP.
Optionally, before you do that, have someone more knowledgeable look your stock tune. Maybe user outlaw_50?

Are you sure you only have E50 in there? The trims tell me you have more.

I would add Turbo Duty Cycle to your PID list, and Knock Retard. Mine retarded spark a lot when I installed an aftermarket motor mount, and I only installed one! So maybe something weird like that is causing your spark to retard?

Meanwhile, I'd try this just to see what happens. It's the same tune I did before except one setting is different in fuel to see if the lambda cmd goes from .760 to .800.

stk read chevota2.hpt

[BetoRibeiro]

Hello, sure the car has been tunned before, it already had catless downpipes when I bought it. Also had a CEL light on for the DTC (catalystic eficiency) .
Later on I had the car stg2 tunned by a brazilian company, used it for a few months like that. That brazilian company is not based in my city, and by phone they replied me they would not develop the e50 tune, or stg3 tune for this car, so i decided to order the MPVI3 and start tunning by myself. When I received the mpvi3 I read the car, and it prompted me the tune was not stock so vcm editor would donwload a stock tune from HPtuners server, i accepted that, and did all the reading, downloaded server stoc map, and writing wih success.
So we can figure out the HP tuners mpvi3 stock map is not stock , or have flaws in writing a stock map in the car? What should I do, go after the brazilian tuner and ask they to flash the car back to stock? I will contact the brazil tunner and see what i get .

Thanks a lot chevota, will get back to you as more info I discover.

[chevota]

Oic. I'd assume the old tune disabled cat heating to prevent it from going into cat heating mode, and now cat heating is working it's trying to heat a cat that isn't there? If so, then your retarded timing makes sense now. I turned cat heating off in that tune, but like with my car it doesn't do anything. I can do another redneck fix to get around that, if you want to try. It's less than ideal but better than it is now.

I didn't know HP could tell it had a tune. It didn't say anything when I used it to read my ecu with and without a tune.
I kinda doubt HP's version of the oem tune is the complete file. My guess is it would be an oen version of what HP normally sees. So if it were me I would write the entire file using KESS or KTAG to bring it back to stock. I believe I might have it? Meaning I have a file that I pulled from a '14 E63 turbo but I have no idea if it's stock or not. I also don't know if it would simply work in your car or does it only work in the car it came from?
I would imagine at the very least you could use it to compare to yours? Here it is if you want it:
https://transferxl.com/download/00vtTpB21vt5XT

[BetoRibeiro]

Well i got to make two logs today.
First one with your stk read chevota2 , the car misfired a lot in top end, and showed CEL, I turn off and on to resume running to normal.
The second i flashed the stock read, and the car runned good (little boost/power) .

I will try taking the car to the former tunner and see if he can flash stock map back with his equipment ( i see it was mygenius the handheld he used in my car).

Regards, Beto.

[chevota]

Doesn't the MyGenius hold the original tune in it? When I used one it did. I thought was part of the deal, which is you use it to copy your file, then you send it to the tuner, they send it back and now the MyGenius has your original and whatever they made for you. That way you can revert to stock at will. At least that's how mine worked.

[chevota]

I guess that one thing I changed was not it, because you're still going to .760.
Since it goes right to that # and stops, I had high hopes it was it. It wouldn't been a fix, just a clue, and help a bit. Oh well...

[BetoRibeiro]

Well i got to the shop that flashed my car in 2023 and we could not flash it back with mygenius device he uses. He will consult with the brazilian tunner how to solve this if I need to flash stock map back to the car, as the mygenius denied this, atatched is a picture of the message.
Car is running on pure gas (no ethanol), i managed to up the power well, using the maximum torque tables. It does not show any DTC codes, i am surprised as the car has catless downpipe, and normaly it would show DTC for catalistc eficency.
I would like to hold more boost up top, and i know the car is capable of that because it bumped to 23psi in 5th gear with the tune it previosly had. It was not ideal, as the IAT got too high in a 160 mph pull using that tune, and eventualy car lost power at arround 175 mph. My goal was to boost 16 to 18 psi all gears, low and high rpm. I need to learn more and see if I can adjust the tune for it to hold the boost past 4000rpm to redline.

Atatched is the current tune and log.

[BetoRibeiro]

The my genius device refused to reflash the car.

[chevota]

Mine would do the same. I thought it allowed me to load the original file back in? Maybe not, it's been a long time since I tried. Now that I think about it, I think it was the HP Patch that killed it. Apparently there is no way to remove that patch, so you're screwed. Well, unless you have a backup copy of your ecu like I do.

This is a great example of why I tell everyone to backup their ecu before applying the patch, or messing with it at all. I'm so glad I did or I'd be F'd right now. I was having trouble smogging mine and the original oem backup file from over two years ago was what saved me. I suppose you could find a dealer, or someone, to load the oem file on it. Then back it up with KESS or KTAG before you do anything else?

The oem and few aftermarket tunes I've seen will pull boost at higher rpm, but you will also run out of turbo at higher rpm. My turbos start petering out ~4200 and it's downhill from there, so I ramp up the command starting at 4k to make more power than it can, so it gives me all the turbos can possibly give. Made a big difference btw.
As for your IAT, I think maybe I mentioned to see if you pump was working? And if you have the older style pump, get the newer "010" version. Because my temps don't rise nearly as fast so I wonder if your intercooler is working at all? At some point in the past the intercooler shared radiator water, so if you have that system maybe look into fixing it?
I can never stay on it long enough for IATs to be an issue, but if it were I'd consider water misters behind the grille. Assuming your heat exchanger is there, like mine is. Water mist should make a huge difference. Most people just add Meth injection, but I wonder if the water mist would be better?

Your spark is still fubar, and imo I wouldn't drive it too hard like that because retard makes heat. Your turbines, and maybe valves, might not like it.
If you want to try this tune to see if it does anything. It's the same tune I gave you last time but with the Min Spark table set to 0. It would be interesting to see if it helps. I set mine to 0, or I set to match my base map, minus a degree or so. Doesn't seem to matter but it's something to pay with. Setting the Cat retard to 0 helped me more than anything, and I've also tried setting that to almost match Base, but again it doesn't seem to matter. Whatever I do it seems to do what it wants, when it wants, but with those mods it doesn't negative as often, and when it does it go as far negative.

So, in "stk read chevota3" I did that spark thing, but also set your Exhaust Gas torque limit to 100, which I guess I overlooked last time?
Max Torque Drive Input I set to how I have mine, because I see you changed it but your setting would make my car very jumpy off the line in normal driving. Fyi.
I also adjusted your Inj PW and Slope to stock since you said no Eth, which is weird because the data looks like lots of meth, but fyi and adjust as you see fit.

I also added the tune "stocklogE63", since you have remnants of the old tune in there and I honestly don't know what that does to it. So this file is an oem tune copied from another 2014 E63, to yours. Some things are different, but I don't think it matters. So this is just a test really, to see if the car like its it or not. Basically I'd just gas it once and see if the spark is normal or not, same with the fuel mix. If not, I think I'm out of ideas.

stk read chevota3.hpt
stocklogE63.hpt

[BetoRibeiro]

Hello , I do not have that devices (kess ktag), the local shop told me it will be necessary to take the ECU out and do a bench flash, if I would like to use the stg2 flash from the brazilian company (perfortech), and that will have some costs, (if it works at all).

One thing I should tell you, is that brazilian gasoline has, by law regulations, 25% ethanol content. So this is why my cars has always showed some positive trims, and I am fueling for correcting this in my tune. When i was e50 tunning last week, i was adding 25% more ethanol, in pratical terms was fueling 10 liters gasoline + 5 liters ethanol in the pump, that gave me E50. (In brazil we have pure pump ethanol in gas stations).

I have the brushlss IC pump upgrade, did that already searching to improve the IAT , with the stg2 tune it had previosly, the IAT were out of control, hiting as high as 100 celsius, that is the main reason I took that tune out, as I were in puersuit of top speed ( for a local competition, 2 miles standing), that tune was good at max for 1 mile, after that the temps got too High and the car cutted, or lost power. That is how i know the turbos can handle 22 psi up top, but i would not see the setting in that stg2 tune that provided that boost. But again, it was a bad tune for top speed, too much heat and proprably bad for the turbos/engine. The brazilian tuner did the tune remotly, and ignored my clains of the too high temps and IATs, so I took that tune out.
Yet in IC , I need to bleed the system, I saw a tasos video where he shows there is a bleed plug in the main heat exchanger, i will try accessing it and doing the correct bleeding of the IC system. My car has the separate IC circuit from factory, but as it is not the "S" version it only has one side heat exchanger, in passengers side.

The spark I saw with my obd blutooh tool, it always too retarded when I was in the old stg2 tune. As now i have the mpvi3, I can Log to better analise it, but I did not do that before reading/flashing the car for HP tuners, either way the car show too retarded spark with stock tune, i do not know how to analise that spark, but the car runs fine, strong, and smooth. My goal was to tune it myself, with a more controlable boost, more spark advance, and making more power up top. But as you said, it seens the ECU commands whatever it wants in most of the parameters, but I will keep researching and developing my tune (and yours sugestions of course), as I always tell my friends, for me most of the fun is doing it myself, and enjoining the journey...

Thanks for the stock e63 file, I will try it and reply here. The car is in the mecanic shop, it started a vibration (chassis wobbling) when accelerating past 30 to 50 mph, first I thought was the main shaft bearing and mount support, changed it but the problem persist. It gets worst when the car and outside temperatures are higher, we are trying to find the problem, it is taking front drive shafts out for inspection, and if nothing is found we will running the car in the air and replicate the situation (with braking?), inspect engine and trans mounts, transfer case axle to 4 matic...

Wish me luck, will get back.

[BetoRibeiro]

Well after a while, I am back to tunning the e63. The vibration was solved, it was only lack of grease in the C/V shaft, all checked and lubbed, problem solved.
About the tunning, I would like to get more info on #18190 spark - advance - "catalystic heating" "use spark offset" is switched ON . And below is a table "spark offset" amd it show a lot of negative values, and i think this is what causes the 0 to negative spark advance in my logs. Can someone clear this , as my car has no catalystic converter, and how the ECU deals with that?

Thanks in advance.

[BetoRibeiro]

I will try this file, and will log to post here tomorrow. Thanks.

[chevota]

Grease? Wth? Well, I guess if it's fixed then I can't argue...

So, yes, I had the same questions about retard, and you can read my latest mess about what happened trying to get rid of it:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...8&=#post787138

In the end, that min spark table is a factor, but not always. So I set mine like this to get it as advanced as possible, but without the negative side effects:
Spark Min.jpg

Since I was copying mine to yours, more or less, I copied that neg spark problem as well. Not sure if it would do the same to your car, but to be safe I changed your tune to match the pix above:
chevota4.hpt


As for the Cat Retard, the On/Off button does NOT work at all on mine. It's active all the time... So I set the whole map to 0, which does work much better. So if those two things works like mine, you will still go negative, just not as far on avg.

[BetoRibeiro]

Hello , yes my car/tune also does not respond to the on/off button (cat spark retard).
The minimum spark table is responsive, but i am afraid i can damage the car doing much changes to that tables. I see me base spark tables respond , advancing 5 degres I can log the spark and it goes up by that amount, and I noticed in the LOG the ECU started detecting knock, with 4 degres advance it stoped detecting knock. I will try tuning spark advance, but it is too hard for me because in my city there is no 4 wd dyno so I can have precise info on power gains, maybe I should leave the spark tables stock? I have wmi kit to install, and will try advancing spark and log the knock to find how much it can hadle safely, but I will have no dyno numbers to call it conclusive...

The most dificult is to understand the fuel , as the required lambda, and lambda tables are targeting 0,82 and up , but all logs show the lambda 0,73 - 0,75 ... It is not bad to be rich, it is the lack of undertanding how the system works that I do not like. Maybe i am missing some corrections? lambda x boost , is there somewhere?

[chevota]

I'd leave the spark stock for now, because I think it's a waste of time at the moment.

I remember your Lambda was hozed, and whatever tweak I did didn't help. It makes me wonder if the tune is just hozed. So I was thinking; since that one tune with high IAT worked, apparently, maybe reinstall that? Assuming it works normally you can then work on reducing IAT mechanically, and/or reduce power.

Can you put that old tune back in? The one with the high IAT? Seems like it would be a much easier starting point, assuming IAT was the only issue.

[BetoRibeiro]

Yes, the stg2+ tune the car had, is were i saw the most boost ( 17psi in 1-2-3, and 23 psi in 4-5-6--7- gears) the problem with that tune is the watercooler gets too hot and trowns aways the coolant by the reservoir cap, i saw that hapening in the top speed event I aptempted in april. I purchased the mpvi3 in the hope to be able to tune 100% what i wanted, but after some time spent and dealing with the available tables, I get to the conclusion that for this platform, the hptuners system in good for a stg1 ou stg2, anything more in not possible. My hope was to tune the car in e50, and later install bigger turbos, but with the experience I have wihu mpvi/vcm editor for my car now, I do not think I will be able to proceed with the project. Will leave it with stg2 tune for now. Will try some more tunes, and maybe restore the old stg2+ tune and setup the WMI kit in the intake manifold, and try see if this solves the high IAT .

[chevota]

I would put the stg2+ on and work on the cooling. IAT goes up with boost, nothing you can do about that. Your only option is to cool it back down as best you can. Better IC, Meth etc. You can also spray water mist behind the grille to cool both the IC and engine. If your IC is off to the side then I suppose you could spray there, but I'd get an IC like mine that's bigger and sits in front of the radiator. Or I think a mod for those cars is to add a second IC on the other side? That would probably be sweet.
You can also inject a ton of pure meth into the engine. Not sure how much you can add. Mine will have a fit if STFT goes to +25, which is as far as it goes, but going negative I've seen it go more than -25 and not complain. The question is, how far will it go? -50 would be sweet, or more. There's a guy on the MBWorld forum who was probably adding 50% or more Lambda of Meth. You could ask him, if you can find him because I don't recall the thread or screen name. Pretty sure it was under W212 AMG: https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg-146

You do need to fix that spark issue, which will make the eng water temp go up, and no doubt too hot for the turbo, and of course kill power. I assume the stg2+ does not have that spark retard problem?

So I would load the stg2+ on it, then read that with HP, then use that reading as a base to play with. That way it is the std2+ with all the things HP cannot do, then you can adjust whatever HP can. Again I suggest you save any/all options you put in the ECU with KESS. Oem, stg2+ and whatever else, I'd save them all. You don't need to use KESS on HP tunes, but you could if you wanted.

Seems odd to me that you get more boost in gears 4+. My boost does not care what gear it's in. So when you say 23psi I assume that's peak ~4-4500rpm? What is it at 6k? Mine can 23 peak easy, if I want, but I try to keep it at 20. After ~4200 boost starts dropping, and by 6k it's down to 12.5. That is the mechanical limit, not the tune. So if had bigger turbos it would only be to make that 6k psi greater, I would never bump peak boost since it's already a bit much for my poor stock eng.