Anyone use an IC Chiller System?

[Stoopalini]

Just curious if folks with boosted setups are using an active cooling setup, like an IC Chiller, to bring IAT2 temps down to ambient or below; and if it helps with long term reliability when running boost

I would think a system like this would allow more base timing without detonation and thus more reliable power.

https://icchiller.com/product/durang...er-track-only/

My IAT2 temps are regularly in the 130 - 140 *F range, even with mid 80s ambient. I imagine a system like this would result in ambient temps, or even 10* or so lower than ambient.

The question is ? is it worth the expense and effort for a daily driver? I imagine a race vehicle it would be really nice for hot lapping.

[N2speed]

Depends on the build... and need more info on your build and goals.

[Stoopalini]

It’s nothing crazy. It’s a 2023 Dodge Durango R/T with the Tow & Go package. So it has all the SRT components except with the 5.7 hemi instead of the 392.

I added a gen 5x Whipple to it and want to keep it below 8psi for now. Plan is to forge the lower end sometime next year, and up the boost to 10-12.

The idea of the IC Chiller intrigues me due to the high air charge temps I’m seeing. I realize 130 - 140 is manageable, but from a longevity perspective, I wondered if lowering the temps back down to ambient would be advantageous. I put the Whipple on around 13k miles, and have about 19k on it now. I’m looking for a long lasting solution since it’s the wife’s daily driver. Something which will make reliable power for the next 100k miles. So spending $2k on the ic chiller would be fine if it meant better long term reliability. But if it would only really benefit me if I were doing something more extreme, then I’d skip it.

[SiriusC1024]

As long as spark is correct the IAT can be hot without compromising reliability. 130-140 really isn't that bad anyway.

[LilSick]

if yer seeing 130 degree your water pump is sucking air or something is not right

3 liter whipples run cool

[Stoopalini]

As long as spark is correct the IAT can be hot without compromising reliability. 130-140 really isn't that bad anyway.

Would cooler air charge temps equate to lower cylinder pressures?

if yer seeing 130 degree your water pump is sucking air or something is not right

3 liter whipples run cool

I thought the same, and reached out to Whipple .. but they were no help. The system is definitely purged of air. I even used a Mighty Vac to pull a vacuum on it to ensure nothing was still trapped.

I even sent the following video to Whipple when they suggested I have air stuck somewhere in the system, but they never even watched it (it's a non-listed video and has zero views currently).



Since then, I've seen a lot of other folks log files and 130 doesn't seem abnormal for this setup. So maybe it is all working correctly, and if I want lower temps, something like the IC Chiller ... or, a larger heat exchanger and better pump?

[LilSick]

99 degree.PNG

80 degree day

[Stoopalini]

Hmm, I wonder why mine is running so hot? Could the tuning issues be causing higher heat soak?

Or ... maybe the TMAP sensor I have is in fact bad, and the IAT readings are just another symptom of the bad sensor?

The replacement 2.25 bar sensor should be delivered tomorrow ... so hopefully I have time to swap it out in the next day or two. I know I need to set the characteristic data properly for the new sensor, but I imagine I'll also need to rescale some tables too, and not just swap it and run the same tune designed for the 3 bar sensor.

[dodgeboy]

Hmm, I wonder why mine is running so hot? Could the tuning issues be causing higher heat soak?

Or ... maybe the TMAP sensor I have is in fact bad, and the IAT readings are just another symptom of the bad sensor?

The replacement 2.25 bar sensor should be delivered tomorrow ... so hopefully I have time to swap it out in the next day or two. I know I need to set the characteristic data properly for the new sensor, but I imagine I'll also need to rescale some tables too, and not just swap it and run the same tune designed for the 3 bar sensor.

on my 2.9L I commonly get over 120 but my IAT sensor is after the blower.

IAT2 is higher than IAT1

[Stoopalini]

on my 2.9L I commonly get over 120 but my IAT sensor is after the blower.

IAT2 is higher than IAT1

The 3.0L uses a Hellcat TMAP sensor, which has the IAT and MAP combined into a single sensor housing. Then the IAT wire from the TMAP connects to the factory IAT harness. So the PCM sees IAT1 signal, but in fact it is IAT2; since it is after the compressor stage.

My IAT consistently reads 130, even just fro the wife going and dropping the kiddos at school.

I double checked the IC coolant system last night, making sure I have the inlet and outlet correct (they are), the pump is running (it is), and I even unbolted the reservoir and lifted it up just to make sure no air was still trapped (no new bubbles came out).

The flow seems to be good to me, but I don't have any reference for comparison.

I wonder if the IC coolant lines are causing an IAT reading issue, considering they run behind the Whipple and rest against the TMAP sensor.

The TMAP sensor is installed in the passenger's side rear corner of the 3.0L

IAT_Heat_Soak.JPG

[LilSick]

yours is totally different Frank. apples n oranges

one of the guys with a 3.0 that i am tuning had a kink in the line down by the pump

you see the pic i posted. that is 80 degree day WOT

140 at least you know your belt is not slipping : )

[Stoopalini]

So the replacement TMAP arrived today (68207074AB), but I haven't swapped it out yet as I'm not sure what needs adjustment in the tune before I do so.

I know I need to change the characteristic data for this sensor in AIRFLOW -> GENERAL and believe these are the correct values based on what a 2016 Hellcat stock tune shows:

MAP Sensor Linear/Slope: 45.42 kPa
MAP Sensor Offset: 7.00 kPa
MAP Sensor Offset: 0.1001v

But are there any other tables which need rescaling to change from the 3 bar to a 2.25 bar?

I also ordered some insulating material to wrap the IC coolant lines with, where they rest against the TMAP. Just in case this is causing a false high reading.

[edcmat-l1]

I would second that something is not right with the intercooler system. The pump isn't pumping, airlock, kinked line, something is up.

Where is the reservoir located? How much capacity? Have you pulled a hose to make sure it's pumping good?

[Stoopalini]

I would second that something is not right with the intercooler system. The pump isn't pumping, airlock, kinked line, something is up.

Where is the reservoir located? How much capacity? Have you pulled a hose to make sure it's pumping good?

It's the Whipple supplied reservoir, located above the passenger's head. Not sure on capacity, but it's pretty small. I have not pulled a hose, but it appears to be pumping good ... check out the video I posted above where I walk through the system. I even open the bleeder valve on the heat exchanger while the pump is running and it is definitely flowing.

I have a replacement bracket for the pump, so will be pulling the bumper to swap that out. I'll double check all the hoses when I do that. There doesn't appear to be any kinks in them though.

[Stoopalini]

I'm still struggling with fairly high IAT temps, even as ambient is starting to come down. The 1st start of the day seems ok, but after the engine bay becomes heat soaked, the IATs then remain around 130 - 140 for the remainder of the day. The vehicle is a daily driver, so there's a lot of short trips throughout the day.

A couple of weeks ago, I removed the bumper to closely inspect the intercooler system. I did make some routing changes of the hoses, just to try and improve flow ... but nothing really looked kinked or restrictive. I also took the pump out and bench tested it with a couple of 5 gal buckets. Once primed, it seems to be flowing strong.

After putting the bumper back on, I even grabbed my endoscope and looked at the hoses around the pump to be sure nothing was getting pinched or kinked. It all seems fine.

Here's a video I made showing the system in operation when I had the bumper off, after I changed the hose routing.



Maybe there's not enough air flow over the heat exchanger? The 2021+ Durango front end doesn't provide a whole lot of opening for airflow...


IC_Heat_Exchanger_1.JPG

IC_Heat_Exchanger_2.JPG

IC_Heat_Exchanger_3.JPG


Maybe changing the cooling fan logic to run when ECT's are over 200*F would help pull air across the intercooler's heat exchanger?

Fans.JPG

[edcmat-l1]

That sure doesn't give you much area for airflow OVER the heat exchanger.

The best way to diagnose this is going to be checking the temps at several different locations. I'd start with the hoses to the heat exchanger. With a temp gun check both of them with the cooling system fans running. That's going to be the only way to get air flowing across the HC when you're sitting still. See what the in and out temp difference is. Then if you have a big fan you can throw in front of the vehicle do that and check the in and out temps again.

Is the HC downflow or side-flow? Looks like it has a top tank in the pic. Is that a bleeder in the middle of it? Has it been bled?

[Stoopalini]

Thanks, I appreciate the input.

I checked the hose temps with my infrared temp gun some time back, trying to figure out what was going on ... But everything read the same temp. Most likely because the hoses themselves were already heat soaked in the engine bay. Even after casual driving, the engine bay gets really hot and everything heat soaks. This is one of the things making me consider an IC Chiller, to try and keep IAT and overall underhood temps down. The hood even has 3 heat extractor vents in it, but it still gets really hot.

When I was checking temps with the temp gun, I could not get the cooling fan to turn on since the ECT temp was below the threshold. By the time the ECT gets high enough to trigger the cooling fan, everything under the hood is already significantly heat soaked. I had hoped VCM Scanner would provide a way to manually turn the cooling fans on so I could verify delta-T, but I couldn't find a mechanism for that in Special Controls and Functions. AlfaOBD may provide a way to do this though, I need to check ...

Good suggestion on throwing a large fan on things though, I'll give that a try. If I can get the surface temps back down to normal, and get air flowing across the heat exchanger, then my temp gun should be more accurate in reading the delta-T across the front heat exchanger, as well as across the SC's heat exchanger.

The heat exchanger has vertical fins with bottom connection points. Yeah, it does have a bleeder on top, and yeah, I have cracked it open many times just to be sure nothing was trapped. The 1st video I posted above I actually do this during the walk through. I didn't open it in the 2nd video, but did show it at one point.

[edcmat-l1]

Thanks, I appreciate the input.

I checked the hose temps with my infrared temp gun some time back, trying to figure out what was going on ... But everything read the same temp.

That's a problem. There should be an easily measurable difference in and out of the HC. If you're not seeing 30+ degrees with some airflow over it, it's not circulating.

[Stoopalini]

That's a problem. There should be an easily measurable difference in and out of the HC. If you're not seeing 30+ degrees with some airflow over it, it's not circulating.

Therein lies my confusion. It's definitely circulating, as I can see it in the reservoir and can hear it when I pinch the hoses. Watch the 2nd video I posted above (it's only 3 min long) and see what you think.

[LilSick]

send me the current tune

ill make it so your fans always be on high so you can test temps

testing the outside of the hose is shitty way to do so but whatcha gonna do???


its not cross flow design

its not blocked by bumper (i would not mess with that, looks like it would get plenty of air across it)