Stall when coming to stop, LM7 5.3 Turbo TH400 swap Speed Density 2BAR

[phtcbra]

Setup is as follows:

Stock LM7 2004 5.3 (BONE stock inside)
TH400 Transmission
GT45 Turbo, Frozen Boost A2W intercooler
P59 HPTuners 2Bar SD MOD ECU (ECU is same one from engine vehicle donor)
Stock front O2 sensors are still in use
Innovate LM-2 Wideband
DBW Throttle with deleted MAF, IAT sensor relocated in truck manifold
Stock 25.2 lb/hr Injectors 17113698
OEM ACDelco Truck 19418810 2BAR Map (Purchased from Summit Racing new)
Adjustable FPR vacuum referenced (unplugged reference base is 58PSI)
2600 lb street car with a 3.55 rear gear

I have been reading up and following a bunch of the advise here on the HPTuners board, along with some YT and prior Tuning I did back on other platforms. I was tuning the car for idle, and cruise throttle only, not going into any boost due to the stock LM7 injectors. I have OEM 12613412 - 50lb L96 injectors but want to get used to dialing in the tune with the stock setup, as it fired up, idled and drove with no problem, other than the stalling when coming to a stop.

I have searched the boards over and over, and tried a few things, but nothing seems to smooth things out with the stalling when coming to a stop issue.

- ADJUSTED BASE SET POINT IDLE around 700-850 range (Can't go much more than 800 or the car just slams into gear/wants to take off when stopped, car has manual brakes)
- ADJUSTED STALL SAVER RPM (IN GEAR/P/N) not even sure if this works for my application, since I don't have an Electronic Transmission and no Speedometer/Gear Indicator to tell what's going on
- ADJUSTED THROTTLE CRACKER added in base line Air flow, again not sure if this even does anything without the Electronic Transmission / no Speedometer/Gear Indicator

I have NOT ADJUSTED THROTTLE FOLLOWER and now looking more into, maybe I should.
Also, I still have the 4L60e Segment on the P59 PCM and did not thing to segment swap it to M6 Manual Transmission until now. Would this be a proper action since I have a TH400?

Attached are two logs, one of a decent drive around the neighborhood with out it stalling, and the second one with it stalling. I hope I have logged enough PID's for some advice. I do have more tuning questions, but the stalling when stopping is really slowing me down from getting good logs for cruise tuning. I appreciate any help I can get, and am trying to cover all the bases, but am open to any criticism. Also, I forgot to clear LTFT's on these logs, so sorry. I just started logging them as I was using the WB02 to tune, but have realized that the pro's on the board feel that the stock o2's are better for idle/cruise and WBO2 is for WOT tuning..

log1ROLLING.hpl

log1STALL.hpl

Tune 2BAR MOD GRG 38.hpt

[blindsquirrel]

Stock LM7 2004 5.3 (BONE stock inside)

If that's true, why you add SO SO MUCH down here in the idle regions?
screenshot.19-09-2024 19.55.19.png

Your injector data is also not correct for a referenced regulator (only Flow Rate has been changed, Offset is still 'sloped' as if returnless).

[TheMechanic]

I always start with a manual trans OS. Also you were not logging your vehicle speed. You do have a sensor for that, right?

[2xLS1]

yes I would start with a complete 4.8 or 6.0 OS, not just the transmission segments. There are things in the engine cal of those that are better when there in no P/N or In Gear input to the PCM. Then just tune it for the 5.3L. And even those benefit from having an ISS input to the PCM. It can't use the throttle cracker without that.

[phtcbra]

If that's true, why you add SO SO MUCH down here in the idle regions?
screenshot.19-09-2024 19.55.19.png

Your injector data is also not correct for a referenced regulator (only Flow Rate has been changed, Offset is still 'sloped' as if returnless).

I was tuning the car with the Wide Band02 for a while, until I read from a few of the experienced tuners on this board (including you) to use the stock o2's for cruise/idle. You're exactly right. Even though I have a turbo on it, its not getting into boost, and is still under vaccum, so its like the stock motor is still stock, which it is. The more I think about this situation, maybe I should just load up the stock Tune and start over, leaving STFT and LTFT's on and see where it takes me, which I've been contemplating the last few hours.. This just confirms the action. If you feel this would be smart, I'll do it tomorrow.

Regarding the Offset being slopped, this was/is an oversite by myself. It has been corrected to this, look correct?

Screenshot 2024-09-19 202213.png

Thank you for your guidance, it is greatly appreciated for pointing me correct.

[phtcbra]

I always start with a manual trans OS. Also you were not logging your vehicle speed. You do have a sensor for that, right?

No, vehicle has a TH400 3 speed automatic transmission behind the 5.3 as its in a muscle car cruizer.

[SiriusC1024]

Lol the quote in the sig.

[phtcbra]

yes I would start with a complete 4.8 or 6.0 OS, not just the transmission segments. There are things in the engine cal of those that are better when there in no P/N or In Gear input to the PCM. Then just tune it for the 5.3L. And even those benefit from having an ISS input to the PCM. It can't use the throttle cracker without that.

oof, this isn't what I wanted to hear.. so would I be having to pay for more credits from HPTuners to be able to edit/change the OS or would this require a LOWBUCKLS PCM Hammer / TunerPro modification?

[phtcbra]

Lol the quote in the sig.

lol, this came from you im sure you realize. One of you good guys trying to help someone, and they just refused to follow the exact instructions they were given.. so yeah.. Im trying my best to get all the basics right so Im not bashed, but I see I've got some more work to do..

[SiriusC1024]

Nah you're good. No need to tiptoe around. There's a difference between asking pointed questions and flat out arguing.

[blindsquirrel]

Drag car + GT45 + 25lb injectors = ???

[phtcbra]

Drag car + GT45 + 25lb injectors = ???

For learning the tuning ways of HPTuners and deciding on what route I was/wanted to go yes. I wanted to make sure the car ran/drove/idle/cruised and what not before making even bigger jumps into the tuning/fuel/injector/methanol injection world. I did some more research when I spent more time on the HPTuners boards, and found that I didn't need to go straight to the 80lb DEKA Injectors because I am not going to max out or get wild with PSI on this car and ultimately came across the postings of you, and a few others talking about the 12613412 L96 injectors. Plus with the injector data sheet you've made and shared I figured it was a no brainer.

The 50 Lb/HR OEM 12613412 L96 Injectors showed up today, I'm just waiting on the Pig Tail Adapters from EFI Connection LLC that you suggested to show up (won't be here till Saturday)

Also, I say Drag Car lightly, its a cruiser that will make some HP/TQ but I don't think Ill be headed down any 1/4 mile strip anytime soon. Im just putting a "muscle car" together with a turbo LS. If I could do it over, I would have just done a NA 5.3 with a cam, and saved the turbo setup for the 4th gen FBody thats next.

[Fast4.7]

Get an inexpensive Dolphin digital pass through VSS and wire in a P/N switch input. Then set the transmission to non-computerized automatic. It works, I have done it on multiple setups now.

[edcmat-l1]

I would do several things differently on this.

First thing is, put a mechanical vacuum gauge on it. The MAP goes as low as 11 Kpa which is a ridiculous amount of vacuum. Almost unrealistic.

Second thing is, I'd use a 411 instead of a P59 just for the VE table.

Third, put a VSS in it.

The VE is rough in the idle area. The 400-800 RPM step is unrealistic.

It's "rich" when it begins to stall. You can see the narrowbands hover around 7-800 mv as it's decelerating on its way to stalling.

Between getting the VE ironed out and VSS input it should run much better.

[phtcbra]

I would do several things differently on this.

First thing is, put a mechanical vacuum gauge on it. The MAP goes as low as 11 Kpa which is a ridiculous amount of vacuum. Almost unrealistic.

Second thing is, I'd use a 411 instead of a P59 just for the VE table.

Third, put a VSS in it.

The VE is rough in the idle area. The 400-800 RPM step is unrealistic.

It's "rich" when it begins to stall. You can see the narrowbands hover around 7-800 mv as it's decelerating on its way to stalling.

Between getting the VE ironed out and VSS input it should run much better.

- Car has a manual vacuum / boost gauage currently installed. Shows 10-9 inches at idle, I do have a secondary gauge just for testing on old-school SBC setups. Is there a range of throttle or RPM I should be looking at the gauge and identifying?

- I am now understanding why the 411 PCM is more suited for my application. I do have a spare 411, but it is currently installed in my 2001 Camaro.. so I may just have to hit a JunkYard and do some pulling.

- I am going to look into the VSS mentioned by Fast4.7 above.

Also, I will be going back to the stock or stock ish file and starting all over on the idle/cruise tune. I've learned a ton over the last few days, and it seems it would be a smart bet to start fresh.

Thanks all.

[phtcbra]

Update:

Loaded up the stock VE Map for the 5.3 since I am just cruising under any boost/idle and the car runs great. Started with the stock settings for idle RPM and never stalled out but seemed like it wanted to. Reset the LTFT and went out and got some great long drives in. I adjusted the idle to 750RPM across the board and all seems a lot better. VERY happy with the results so far, even though technically nothing really has been "tuned" but I am at a far better starting point than I was. Still does drop down, and gets a little rich but doesn't stall, and I don't have any adjustments to Stall Saver, Throttle Cracker untill I segement swap/get VSS installed.

I ordered up the Dolphin Digital Pass Through Speed Sensor, and will get that going as soon as I confirm the speedometer gear needed for my setup.

I just double checked the Vacuum at Idle in Park 17in and in Gear at Idle it is 15in.

Tune 2BAR MOD BS RESET.hpt

LOG4 VE STOCK.hpl

[TheMechanic]

Let me know if you want a VIN for the 411 manual trans. I do factory SPS TechLine Connect programming also unless you have a source. No pressure, just letting you know you have options.

1GCEC14VX2Z163908 2002 C1500 4X2
MG5 5 SPEED MANUAL LR4 4.8 LITER NF2 FED P01 OSID 12212156

1GCEC14V01Z290150 2001 C1500 4X2
MG5 5 SPEED MANUAL LR4 4.8 LITER NF2 FED P01 OSID 12208322

[gametech]

- Car has a manual vacuum / boost gauage currently installed. Shows 10-9 inches at idle, I do have a secondary gauge just for testing on old-school SBC setups. Is there a range of throttle or RPM I should be looking at the gauge and identifying?

- I am now understanding why the 411 PCM is more suited for my application. I do have a spare 411, but it is currently installed in my 2001 Camaro.. so I may just have to hit a JunkYard and do some pulling.

- I am going to look into the VSS mentioned by Fast4.7 above.

Also, I will be going back to the stock or stock ish file and starting all over on the idle/cruise tune. I've learned a ton over the last few days, and it seems it would be a smart bet to start fresh.

Thanks all.

I would stick with the p59 computer for future options. It won't matter until you are much more comfortable with tuning, but the p59 allows a LOT more options than just what HPT software allows.

[SiriusC1024]

Only one MAP sensor PID should be present. Keep the 2 bar, remove the SAE.

Should probably start over with the stock spark tables.

[Fast4.7]

Update:

Loaded up the stock VE Map for the 5.3 since I am just cruising under any boost/idle and the car runs great. Started with the stock settings for idle RPM and never stalled out but seemed like it wanted to. Reset the LTFT and went out and got some great long drives in. I adjusted the idle to 750RPM across the board and all seems a lot better. VERY happy with the results so far, even though technically nothing really has been "tuned" but I am at a far better starting point than I was. Still does drop down, and gets a little rich but doesn't stall, and I don't have any adjustments to Stall Saver, Throttle Cracker untill I segement swap/get VSS installed.

I ordered up the Dolphin Digital Pass Through Speed Sensor, and will get that going as soon as I confirm the speedometer gear needed for my setup.

I just double checked the Vacuum at Idle in Park 17in and in Gear at Idle it is 15in.

Tune 2BAR MOD BS RESET.hpt

LOG4 VE STOCK.hpl

If you have a standard style Neutral safety switch it is very easy to use a relay and a diode to give the PCM a proper Park/Neutral switch that can be utilized using the single wire P/N switch input like the 4th generation F-cars used. Open the instructions and they have a diagram of how to do it. Could buy the kit but I never have because I can duplicate it with $10 worth of pieces.

https://painlessperformance.com/prod...part-no-60122/

My last conversion to a P59 was on a 1987 G20 that had a P/N switch already wired through the C100 plug on the firewall for the old TBI ECM so I did not even have to use this method, just tied the existing wire to the P59. Ties to C1 Blue connector pin 34. This enables the idle airflow tables and idle speed settings for Park to be enabled. Without the switch the PCM always runs on the Drive settings. With a little tuning on the Park and Drive settings the idle will not drop or race when the transmission is shifted. Big help for a tendency mine had stalling going into reverse. On my cammed L31 350 it helped to add a bit of timing in the Drive idle timing table as well. The PCM bumps the timing up from 20* to 24* when I put it into Drive to help offset the increased load. The VSS enables all the idle transition routines for better IAC control as well when coming to a stop. I find better sucess giving the PCM the inputs it needs rather than trying to tune around them. That transmission option switch that is not supposed to do anything also disabled all the transmission DTCs by turning off the electronic transmission code in the PCM when I set it to non-computerized automatic. I do have a non-computerized segment for the 8100s in the big trucks that used Allison 545s for both the 0411 and P59 but I have not had to use it yet.