Injection timing truck norris cam LY6 e38

[bassbuster0303]

looking to fix how stinky my truck is at idle before i get into the fueling. there are no mechanical issues who has tuned there injection timing and whats the best way to get it spraying on the back of the intake valve ive used the spreadsheets and still makes no sense which way to go with the few tables in injection timing. truck went from stock vvt to truck norris ly6 stock injectors on return sytem so i flat lined flowrate vs kpa. the only cam specs i can get are at .050 any opinions and expirence appreciated



current ben 6.0 truck norris idle work.hpt

[Cringer]

looking to fix how stinky my truck is at idle before i get into the fueling. there are no mechanical issues who has tuned there injection timing and whats the best way to get it spraying on the back of the intake valve ive used the spreadsheets and still makes no sense which way to go with the few tables in injection timing. truck went from stock vvt to truck norris ly6 stock injectors on return sytem so i flat lined flowrate vs kpa. the only cam specs i can get are at .050 any opinions and expirence appreciated



current ben 6.0 truck norris idle work.hpt

This should help. EOIT has been sorted out as well as a few other changes you cannot see in the latest software, which should also address idle fueling issues.
current ben 6.0 truck norris idle work - cringer.hpt

[bassbuster0303]

thanks cringer i have the tool and been playing with it. But i didnt degree my cam (truck norris ) and the cam card dosent give the information you need hence 221/22x @.050 worrys me. going off of what another guy stated it was at .006 rechecking what i couldve done wrong. i wasnt recording my injector pulse on the same pid in the log can it be done with an individual bank average they seem to correspond and give me normal looking data if i edit your table you made in the video to that pid bye the way your all your videos are a huge help thanks again

[Cringer]

thanks cringer i have the tool and been playing with it. But i didnt degree my cam (truck norris ) and the cam card dosent give the information you need hence 221/22x @.050 worrys me. going off of what another guy stated it was at .006 rechecking what i couldve done wrong. i wasnt recording my injector pulse on the same pid in the log can it be done with an individual bank average they seem to correspond and give me normal looking data if i edit your table you made in the video to that pid bye the way your all your videos are a huge help thanks again

The video I made has a lot of incorrect info and thus the EOIT tool has that baked into it. Making a new video and update the EOIT tool is on my to do list, but in the mean time....just trust me bro. Have you tested the new tune I sent you? Better?

[04silverado6.0]

212/224 107.5 lsa 106icl

[bassbuster0303]

yessir have you degreed the cam or tuned it for that matter if you could drop a shot of the injection timing tables you modified itd be awesome if i could plug them in the tooland reference from I used those cam specs from another thread I found. definitely makes me feel better getting a second confirmation though. its pretty crazy he has the only YouTube video of anyone modifying them but he had a custom grind and its a lot to take in that quick I would love to have him tune my truck. heard to many stories of incompetent tuners in east TN is the reason I want to learn myself.

[Cringer]

212/224 107.5 lsa 106icl

Given the input:

.050" Duration: 212/224
LSA: 107.5
ICL: 106

We calculate:

ECL: 108.5
Adv: 1
Overlap: 3

Then we calculate the valve events for .050" to be:

EVO: 40.5
EVC: 3.5
IVO: -.5
IVC: 32.5

Then we assume the ramp rate for most LS cams to be 25* for opening and closing (50* in total), so we can calculate the .006" duration:

.060" Duration: 262/274

Then we calculate the valve events for .006" to be (use the .050" events and add 25* to the opening events and add 25* to the closing events):

EVO: 66
EVC: 29
IVO: 25
IVC: 58

Then we find the all important number for end of overlap (don't spray fuel until/after):

360 + 29 = 389 Boundary degrees

Assuming you want to zero out the N. ECT table and use use the Boundary table...

1) 580* Boundary Angle works great for most aftermarket performance cams for high RPM areas (starting from say...4000 or 5000 rpm up to 8000). However, you will need to account for the -7* Intake Cam offset and that means your Boundary will be 587*
2) For idle RPM, you will need to add your IPW in degrees to 389* to calculate the Boundary. Assuming your IPW is 2.2 ms, at 800 RPM idle, that comes out to 11* IPW in degrees. 389* + 11* + 7* = 407*
3) For Mid RPMs you will need to blend/interpolate the idle Boundary from 407* to 587*. You will need to experiment here for throttle response, popping, and fuel trims.

Note:

The 7 comes from a hidden table that Verlon found relating to OS's that have a variable cam. When the cam is parked, it pulls 7 degrees out.
If you have an OS that never came with factory variable valve timing, then you can ignore the 7 (assume it is zero).

Tuning:

• This is needed since we are assuming a 25* ramp rate.
• There is also push rod deflection and lifter plunger compression that need to be accounted for.
• Experiment by moving the Boundary lower (sooner SOI) and higher (later SOI)
  
  • CL you want lower fuel trims, no fuel smell, good throttle response for sharp pedal movements, and no popping
  • PE you want richer EQ on the wideband and a faster timeslip!

https://www.summitracing.com/newsand...ing-calculator

BTR TN Summit Calc.jpg

Here is an example of what I mean. This is a starting point for you and by no means to be considered perfect/done/tuned!

truck norris example.jpg

[Tech1340]

This should help. EOIT has been sorted out as well as a few other changes you cannot see in the latest software, which should also address idle fueling issues.
current ben 6.0 truck norris idle work - cringer.hpt

Cringer, I?m curious what hidden settings you are referring to? Is it the VVT settings? Also What version do I need to look at it in?

[Cringer]

Cringer, I?m curious what hidden settings you are referring to? Is it the VVT settings? Also What version do I need to look at it in?

You will need an XDF file to view/edit it in your OS via HPT. It was never mapped with any HPT version.

The post has details and the linked post has more details.

[04silverado6.0]

Do we know the eoit is advanced in vvt vehicles where the number of camshafts is set to none?

[Cringer]

Do we know the eoit is advanced in vvt vehicles where the number of camshafts is set to none?

This is from a factory LS3 / E38 (OS ID 12656930). X axis is measured intake cam retard degrees (not commanded). The values in the table are degrees that will be added to the Boundary table.
So essentially no TRUE LS engine ever had VVT, so the cam is considered parked at all times, so Boundary is never modified.

IntCamAngleBoundaryOffset.jpg

A factory ECU that was mated to a VVT motor (aka a truck/vortec motor) will subtract (adding a negative) to the Boundary table at idle:
Assuming Boundary at idle is 520....
513 (new Boundary) = 520 + (-7)

L94 IntCam Boundary Offset.jpg

So even if the cam is set to NONE, the Boundary is modified.

[04silverado6.0]

That is interesting.

[Tech1340]

Yes I agree very interesting, I’ve deleted my VVT with the cam swap in my 5.3 Tahoe and I’ve often wondered if there was more at play with the EOIT because I’m still fighting the stinky idle even with Cats and fuel 2-3% +\-.

[04silverado6.0]

I definitely get a lot more idle smell out of these than a gen 3 or non vvt engine. Never could point my finger on why.

[Alvin]

There is a reason why the factory doesn't put a cam like that in cars. They are going to be more stinky. I wouldn't expect miracles with EOIT

Do you have cats on it still? That makes a huge difference.

[Tech1340]

Hi Alvin, I definitely agree with that, there is always give and take when you start swapping Camshafts and my issue is bare able, I’m just trying trying to learn more about it and how it effects the Exhaust and VVT. Yes I still have Cats at the moment with it being an SUV I’m trying to keep it tame as possible in the cabin.

[TheMechanic]

You will need an XDF file to view/edit it in your OS via HPT. It was never mapped with any HPT version.

The post has details and the linked post has more details.

So is User Defined Parameters worth the $170?

[Cringer]

So is User Defined Parameters worth the $170?

If you know how to get the .BIN file for the tune you are working on, and dissect the .BIN file's hex, and create your own XDF files from that hex, then yes, it is worth it.

Edit: However, each XDF file only works on the specific OS ID that is was created from. They are not universal and you will have to create new XDF files for different OS ID's to do the same thing.

[ns158sl]

Truck Norris

@.006
IVO: 21.5
IVC: 57.5
EVO: 63
EVC: 29

Im sure there is a little error in those numbers plus or minus a degree or two.

[04silverado6.0]

If you have ever seen a cam card for a real cam you would know they are not ground equal. They all have a tolerance just like any machined component. The guy setting the tooling up may be a little lazy on his math. I have found on the dyno that some truck norris builds make lots of low end with no top end, some average, some not making as much low and scream out top. Ive had many identical truck norris builds on the rollers and they have a wild varience in performance and also low speed manners.