Injection timing truck norris cam LY6 e38

[04silverado6.0]

Plus you have machine wear and maintenance, chucking the cam in the machine, tooling and measurement equipment tolerance in calibration.

[ns158sl]

Which is why you always check pushrod length/lifter preload and PTV. The specs I listed is from my engine verified with a Dial indicator and a degree wheel. But I am sure I have a little error in my reading of the degree wheel, hah. Definitely close enough for EOIT though.

I also think its weird by doing the math, which I believe in, people like Banish advocates removing from the ECT Adder, which I also believe lol.

[Cringer]

Which is why you always check pushrod length/lifter preload and PTV. The specs I listed is from my engine verified with a Dial indicator and a degree wheel. But I am sure I have a little error in my reading of the degree wheel, hah. Definitely close enough for EOIT though.

I also think its weird by doing the math, which I believe in, people like Banish advocates removing from the ECT Adder, which I also believe lol.

You can do that. This does severely retard SOI and it also prevents make up mode from firing.

[Balakayt.]

So is it best to disregard your EOIT tool until it has been updated??

[Cringer]

So is it best to disregard your EOIT tool until it has been updated??

Correct. The original one is not accurate. I've been re-writing it. I believe I finished it today. But I need to release it along with my findings (almost done) . And there is still one MAJOR factor that I found and haven't announced about how the ECM calcs EOIT. So I'll have to update my previous post in this thread about how I calc'd for the truck norris.

[bassbuster0303]

I been waiting on that youtube notification haha very curious

[Cringer]

I been waiting on that youtube notification haha very curious

You heard it here first:
https://youtu.be/FmdJOOUUqQg
https://youtu.be/viLlBZVbeag

Hats off to Verlon!

[ns158sl]

I would be curious to load a stock vehicle log and Cal into your program and see how the OEM correlates. All I have is a tiny idle log of a L96, and it seems SOIT to be over 300 degrees before IVO, seems excessive time for spraying on a closed Intake Valve.

How have you been verifying better/worse outcome? Fuel trim data only?

[Cringer]

I would be curious to load a stock vehicle log and Cal into your program and see how the OEM correlates. All I have is a tiny idle log of a L96, and it seems SOIT to be over 300 degrees before IVO, seems excessive time for spraying on a closed Intake Valve.

How have you been verifying better/worse outcome? Fuel trim data only?

You can certainly load any OEM calibration in there but obviously that is only half story without the IPW data. The deeper I get into tuning the more I regret starting out learning on an already modified car after several other tuners messed with it. What I wouldn't give for some stock engine/calibration log files (with wide band data)!

There are several variations/themes that I have seen with the OEM calibration:
1) Flat line for the Boundary (2014 Camaro SS)
2a) Sober guy at GM: Downward diagonal line Boundary starting at 520 for low RPM and trending down to 360 for high RPM (2014 Chevy SS)
2b) Drunk guy at GM who had a case of the Monday's (2012 Corvette Grand Sport)

I think it is also important to understand that OEM EOIT also ties into their overall strategy for PE/Delay/Desoot/COT/Transient fueling. I think most of aftermarket tuners have more of a one track mindset and are also hampered at not knowing the full algorithm and how everything is tied together (either logic or other hidden tables).

I use fuel trims, but also misfire/pops, and drivability/throttle responsiveness. But the point of the video is really to show what is going on and not how to tune it. I do offer insight into my strategy, but I am not saying it is perfect, and I will probably change many times over the next few months as I test different things.

[ns158sl]

What I wouldn't give for some stock engine/calibration log files (with wide band data)!

Same!

Yeah the Grand Sport is odd, granted it looks like they are utilizing Normal RPM though.

[RDF1]

If you have ever seen a cam card for a real cam you would know they are not ground equal. They all have a tolerance just like any machined component. The guy setting the tooling up may be a little lazy on his math. I have found on the dyno that some truck norris builds make lots of low end with no top end, some average, some not making as much low and scream out top. Ive had many identical truck norris builds on the rollers and they have a wild varience in performance and also low speed manners.

Ever put a TN cam on the Cam Doctor?

[Cringer]

Same!

Yeah the Grand Sport is odd, granted it looks like they are utilizing Normal RPM though.

According to my oscilloscope testing and verlon's digging in the BIN file, Normal RPM does NOT play a factor in closed loop or PE conditions. It is used for cranking.

[04silverado6.0]

Ever put a TN cam on the Cam Doctor?

No.

[Balakayt.]

Would anyone happen to have a matching Gen4 BIN and XDF file they would be willing to share? id like to explore some of the "hidden" tables mentioned in cringers new EIOT video.

[schiavonske1013]

Ugh this is eye opening for me even though I’m on gen 3, makes me realize that, assuming the gen 3 spreadsheets are even right, a stock lsa eoit isn’t 110 degrees later than a stock gen 3 truck (410 vs 300.5) but actually virtually identical (300 vs 300.5). Makes so much sense now why pushing my gen 3 with an lsa blower to (assumed) 410 was having poor affects, yet guys who had almost identical cam specs were using 410 perfectly fine, because it was never 410, it was 300 the whole time. Cringer and Vernon thank you both for your hard work!

[Cringer]

Would anyone happen to have a matching Gen4 BIN and XDF file they would be willing to share? id like to explore some of the "hidden" tables mentioned in cringers new EIOT video.

The course of action is:

Get BIN file
Use 3rd party reverse engineering tools to examine the BIN file

• IDA
  
• Ghidra
  
• TunerPro
  
• UniversalPatcher

Generate an XDF file for that particular OS ID
Pay HPTuners the license cost for User Defined Functions (this is a one time fee that once paid enables unlimited XDF files for any and all tunes going forward)
Import the XDF file into HPTuners
Edit the .HPT file
Flash the ECM
Win races

The XDF file is an XML file that has the information on where to find the data in the BIN file, the data type, etc. Here is the official post from HPT.

Here is an example what what this looks like once imported into HPT. In the XDF file I have open, you can see there are 16 different mappings (scalars and tables) that are available. So the one XDF file has multiple mappings grouped as one cohesive view. I have the Intake Cam Boundary Offset table open for display.

XDF example.jpg

DSteck posted an XDF file in the Gen5 section a while back for the Flex Fuel Spark Multiplier. I cannot find it to link to it. But here are the files. Again, unless you paid the HPT license for XDF's you cannot really use this in HPT. But it should work in TunerPro...except that TunerPro works in BIN files, not HPT.

12719161.xdf
9-8-23 Gary Factory Tune File Pull.hpt

[04silverado6.0]

The course of action is:

Get BIN file
Use 3rd party reverse engineering tools to examine the BIN file

• IDA
  
• Ghidra
  
• TunerPro
  
• UniversalPatcher

Generate an XDF file for that particular OS ID
Pay HPTuners the license cost for User Defined Functions (this is a one time fee that once paid enables unlimited XDF files for any and all tunes going forward)
Import the XDF file into HPTuners
Edit the .HPT file
Flash the ECM
Win races

The XDF file is an XML file that has the information on where to find the data in the BIN file, the data type, etc. Here is the official post from HPT.

Here is an example what what this looks like once imported into HPT. In the XDF file I have open, you can see there are 16 different mappings (scalars and tables) that are available. So the one XDF file has multiple mappings grouped as one cohesive view. I have the Intake Cam Boundary Offset table open for display.

XDF example.jpg

DSteck posted an XDF file in the Gen5 section a while back for the Flex Fuel Spark Multiplier. I cannot find it to link to it. But here are the files. Again, unless you paid the HPT license for XDF's you cannot really use this in HPT. But it should work in TunerPro...except that TunerPro works in BIN files, not HPT.

12719161.xdf
9-8-23 Gary Factory Tune File Pull.hpt

The parameter in that xdf has been fixed in the newer betas.

[Balakayt.]

The course of action is:

Get BIN file
Use 3rd party reverse engineering tools to examine the BIN file

• IDA
  
• Ghidra
  
• TunerPro
  
• UniversalPatcher

Generate an XDF file for that particular OS ID
Pay HPTuners the license cost for User Defined Functions (this is a one time fee that once paid enables unlimited XDF files for any and all tunes going forward)
Import the XDF file into HPTuners
Edit the .HPT file
Flash the ECM
Win races

The XDF file is an XML file that has the information on where to find the data in the BIN file, the data type, etc. Here is the official post from HPT.

Here is an example what what this looks like once imported into HPT. In the XDF file I have open, you can see there are 16 different mappings (scalars and tables) that are available. So the one XDF file has multiple mappings grouped as one cohesive view. I have the Intake Cam Boundary Offset table open for display.

XDF example.jpg

DSteck posted an XDF file in the Gen5 section a while back for the Flex Fuel Spark Multiplier. I cannot find it to link to it. But here are the files. Again, unless you paid the HPT license for XDF's you cannot really use this in HPT. But it should work in TunerPro...except that TunerPro works in BIN files, not HPT.

12719161.xdf
9-8-23 Gary Factory Tune File Pull.hpt

I honestly don't think ill ever be one who can reverse engineer an XDF file. Im just a auto tech and that's above my pay grade. But all the combined knowledge on here and awesome videos you make, make it a lot easier to know what's goin on and understand the tuning process. Thanks for Sharing!

[ns158sl]

I honestly don't think ill ever be one who can reverse engineer an XDF file. Im just a auto tech and that's above my pay grade. But all the combined knowledge on here and awesome videos you make, make it a lot easier to know what's goin on and understand the tuning process. Thanks for Sharing!

Same, just a mechanic too.

But I wont give up yet lol. Hell, getting Ghidra to work is more in depth than I figured. Honestly I think a dude could make a real good living creating one off XDFs for people. Im surprised HPT or EFI hasnt tapped that resource yet.

[Balakayt.]

The more i learn the more there is to learn lol. Anyone know of a program i can use to get a Gen 5 BIN file off my truck by chance? i have a mongoose GM 2 cable.