How is delivered torque calculated in a gen3?

[SiriusC1024]

Here's some changes to address those problems.

[SiriusC1024]

Another strange thing about your logs, maybe version compatibility, is that there are not log details. Because of that I can't see if there are pending codes. The way it randomly pulls max timing sustained makes me wonder if there are any pending or active KS codes. Run a diag through scanner and have a look.

Yeah, I remember this kind of thing was happening a few weeks ago on another person's build I was working on. No knock and then knock would happen full retard a few days later. Intermittent pending KS codes. Turned out to be a missing/loose/fragile (forget exactly) ground strap. Motor tilts around on hard accel and will make bad connections show. Make sure the grounds, especially on the back of the heads, got put back and are in good shape. Check and clean both ends. There are tiny ones coming out of the harness, too.

[blindsquirrel]

There's a bug in the scanner's Export function, about half the time details will be blank. Been like that since before forever.

[GBull]

Another strange thing about your logs, maybe version compatibility, is that there are not log details. Because of that I can't see if there are pending codes. The way it randomly pulls max timing sustained makes me wonder if there are any pending or active KS codes. Run a diag through scanner and have a look.

Yeah, I remember this kind of thing was happening a few weeks ago on another person's build I was working on. No knock and then knock would happen full retard a few days later. Intermittent pending KS codes. Turned out to be a missing/loose/fragile (forget exactly) ground strap. Motor tilts around on hard accel and will make bad connections show. Make sure the grounds, especially on the back of the heads, got put back and are in good shape. Check and clean both ends. There are tiny ones coming out of the harness, too.

Will do. Maybe its time to upgrade to a better laptop. I've been afraid to mess with something that I thought worked, sounds like it could be a weak link after all.
Having just had the engine out for the rebuild I can say I did do a careful job with the grounds. I also added a 6ga ground from the battery terminal to the front of the engine..
I don't know what you mean or how to "run a diag through the scanner". Can you give me a little more detail on this?
I've also been curious, when you "write calibration" do the fuel trims automatically reset?

I am using the old MPVI pro on an old vista laptop... What would I need to purchase from HP Tuners to get where I want to be?

[GBull]

There's a bug in the scanner's Export function, about half the time details will be blank. Been like that since before forever.

Thanks, more reason to push me out of this old equipment.
Looking on the hp site it's not easy to figure just what I might need to get updated. I don't need to bring myself up to professional levels but I will be an enthusiast on my own stuff forever..

[SiriusC1024]

I don't know what you mean or how to "run a diag through the scanner". Can you give me a little more detail on this?

VCM Scanner vehicle diagnostic:
diag.png

[GBull]

VCM Scanner vehicle diagnostic:
diag.png

I'm off to buy a new laptop and move up in tech a couple decades....

So I get a new laptop and download the latest version, I have my old app key, password, and serial #. Will I just be able to enter this info and be up and running? I'm wondering will it know my credit usage and the OS's that are licensed?

[SiriusC1024]

You don't have that stuff? That's not a hardware problem.

[GBull]

Another strange thing about your logs, maybe version compatibility, is that there are not log details. Because of that I can't see if there are pending codes. The way it randomly pulls max timing sustained makes me wonder if there are any pending or active KS codes. Run a diag through scanner and have a look.

Yeah, I remember this kind of thing was happening a few weeks ago on another person's build I was working on. No knock and then knock would happen full retard a few days later. Intermittent pending KS codes. Turned out to be a missing/loose/fragile (forget exactly) ground strap. Motor tilts around on hard accel and will make bad connections show. Make sure the grounds, especially on the back of the heads, got put back and are in good shape. Check and clean both ends. There are tiny ones coming out of the harness, too.

First log is a complete warmup.
Log 12 was pretty clean across the table
Log 13 after 10 min at NAPA, Threw a bunch of retard in the low end. very very mild throttle use. I pulled over and saved it, then proceeded with another to see if it repeated.
Log 14 1400-2400 has retard, and light retard 4000 -up. This log has a couple WOT pulls up a 12% grade.
Log 15 on my way to the gas station...
Log 16 home from gas station.

Retard was repeatable. I wonder if run 13 -16 aren't encouraged from a little heat soak. Tomorrow I'm gonna install a 180 thermostat-motorad.
Seeing retard at idle makes me wonder if the knock sensors aren't still to sensitive... I used a bushing style continuous shaft rocker arm assy from comp cams. could be a little noisier..

Probably of no need but here's my cam specs (I remember another Senior Tuner expressing his dissatisfaction with a trade name and I see his point.
These values were measured at cam install.

Intake opening @.050 1 ATDC Exhaust [email protected] 40.7
Intake closing @ .050 33 ABDC Exhaust [email protected] 6.3

Intake gross lift .549
Exhaust gross lift .553
Intake duration @.050 212
Exhaust duration @.050 227

Lobe separation 107.5 Installed lobe center 106.75

My reasoning for moving up the EOIT a small amount was this cam overlap. Really can't say I know it helped when I did it. I see you changed it back.
I ran the diagnostic and checked for any knock sensor related codes and there were none.
While peaking at the scanner while driving I notice that some retard seems to be thrown on decel from an aggressive throttle event. I wonder why?

I'm really happy with how it runs. Also it seems to me that the timing retard does seem to act appropriately to your changes. Maybe it just needs a little less in some areas...then I wonder why the heck it would retard at a 20degree idle...
I still can't thank you enough for your efforts and I'm curious-do you make a business at this or are you just a super-enthusiast?

[SiriusC1024]

So here is something dumb. I thought I had already adjusted the KS values. Now they are. Get the 180 Tstat and try this tune for KR. Spark back up to where it was.

For EOIT I was going to stock because of what I was seeing during deep decel. Fueling starts to fall apart at low pulsewidths. For example, fuel trims show 10% lean one cell then 8% rich the next kPa cell up the rpm axis. It's like low PW injector behavior has variance. Adjusting EOIT to stock be can be effective for that because it makes for richer fueling in those areas, as can be seen in the current logs when compared to the previous. Going stock EOIT is an experiment to test a hypothesis - inconsistent injector firing is causing desync of bulk flow with valve events.

Those are old old injectors man. Old technology made worse by wear over time. I think things would be more consistent with more modern Gen IV injectors. What rails are you running?

Hobbyist. It's fun. I bought HPT just to be able to change my gear ratio, but then I got hooked. That was back when I joined in '22. My day job is similar, but in an industrial setting.

[GBull]

So here is something dumb. I thought I had already adjusted the KS values. Now they are. Get the 180 Tstat and try this tune for KR. Spark back up to where it was.

For EOIT I was going to stock because of what I was seeing during deep decel. Fueling starts to fall apart at low pulsewidths. For example, fuel trims show 10% lean one cell then 8% rich the next kPa cell up the rpm axis. It's like low PW injector behavior has variance. Adjusting EOIT to stock be can be effective for that because it makes for richer fueling in those areas, as can be seen in the current logs when compared to the previous. Going stock EOIT is an experiment to test a hypothesis - inconsistent injector firing is causing desync of bulk flow with valve events.

Those are old old injectors man. Old technology made worse by wear over time. I think things would be more consistent with more modern Gen IV injectors. What rails are you running?

Hobbyist. It's fun. I bought HPT just to be able to change my gear ratio, but then I got hooked. That was back when I joined in '22. My day job is similar, but in an industrial setting.

The injectors are new as of the new rebuild. They are the 8.1l injectors for the same year truck. I am using the stock 2001 6.0l truck rails. The truck rails use a different injector than other GM rails. This allowed me to stay with the stock intake manifold. Could I get larger injectors for these rails than the 30lb'ers?, I haven't even looked into it. It's not lost on me that these injectors are a little undersized at this point-at 5500+ rpms. But I really never hardly ever go there.
When I retired from the Fire Department a year or so ago I decided I'd build a new engine for my old truck instead of getting a newer truck. I like my old stuff... So with the help of my neighbor who owns a speed shop and builds many specialty engines I had good opportunity. After about 13k worth of parts and machining I ended up with a 394 stroker-balanced and blue printed. The experience of the build was really cool. My neighbor is in the process of building a race car for himself frame up. On top of being a master engine builder he's a hell of a welder and fabricator. In a month or two he'll be done with his rack an I will get a chance to install my long tube headers, and rework my 3" exhaust to include cat delete. I suspect that will wake things up significantly on this combination.

Is the C10 part of your moniker in reference to the old chevy pickup?

I look forward to trying the next iteration, I'm lucky you asked me what my tune was looking like lol.

[SiriusC1024]

These injectors from this seller have been validated by the guy who made the Gen IV-Gen III conversion sheet:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274424906026

The sheet:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post803270

These adapters:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post745108

Might as well throw a new reg on the rail since it's so cheap.

The handle is from:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq4S...dvamlyYQ%3D%3D
Then 1024 is 2^10. Idk.

[GBull]

These injectors from this seller have been validated by the guy who made the Gen IV-Gen III conversion sheet:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274424906026

The sheet:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post803270

These adapters:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post745108

Might as well throw a new reg on the rail since it's so cheap.

The handle is from:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq4S...dvamlyYQ%3D%3D
Then 1024 is 2^10. Idk.

Nice video! I'll look into sorting that injector stuff out.

[GBull]

So here is something dumb. I thought I had already adjusted the KS values. Now they are. Get the 180 Tstat and try this tune for KR. Spark back up to where it was.

For EOIT I was going to stock because of what I was seeing during deep decel. Fueling starts to fall apart at low pulsewidths. For example, fuel trims show 10% lean one cell then 8% rich the next kPa cell up the rpm axis. It's like low PW injector behavior has variance. Adjusting EOIT to stock be can be effective for that because it makes for richer fueling in those areas, as can be seen in the current logs when compared to the previous. Going stock EOIT is an experiment to test a hypothesis - inconsistent injector firing is causing desync of bulk flow with valve events.

Those are old old injectors man. Old technology made worse by wear over time. I think things would be more consistent with more modern Gen IV injectors. What rails are you running?

Hobbyist. It's fun. I bought HPT just to be able to change my gear ratio, but then I got hooked. That was back when I joined in '22. My day job is similar, but in an industrial setting.

Ok, Thermo won't happen for a few days, had to order it to get exactly what I wanted.
A handful of scans for repeatability... Never heard a ping...
17-19 are some regular driving, getting on it enough to test the higher ranges.
20 is a very slow loading of the throttle on a very steep hill plus a little brake action.
21 is a series of quick jabs and is clean of retard...

[GBull]

These injectors from this seller have been validated by the guy who made the Gen IV-Gen III conversion sheet:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274424906026

The sheet:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post803270

These adapters:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...l=1#post745108

Might as well throw a new reg on the rail since it's so cheap.

The handle is from:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq4S...dvamlyYQ%3D%3D
Then 1024 is 2^10. Idk.

I've been looking at the bosch 0280155830 injectors. 34lb/hr @43.5psi, I presume these would be around 42 lb/hr @ 58psi. Are these to oversized that they would hurt idle and low end? I doubt it but have ZERO experience here..
The rail has a new reg. Engine has all new sensors except for MAF.

[SiriusC1024]

Those ones I linked are hard to beat. Something north of 36lb. Wouldn't bother with aftermarket.

[GBull]

Those ones I linked are hard to beat. Something north of 36lb. Wouldn't bother with aftermarket.

The 12613412's on ebay(44lb/hr) or one of the boschs on the ev6 sheet?

[GBull]

Those ones I linked are hard to beat. Something north of 36lb. Wouldn't bother with aftermarket.

Actually a tad north of 50lb/hr per Blindsquirrel's Data. I might get that injector to 65% duty cycle. That must be ok with the newer technology...

[SiriusC1024]

No, was saying 36lb for the min size.

I know those have been recommended for that eBay link, but to me the price is too good to be true. Personally, I'd buy a set 12613412's off RockAuto to be sure I'm getting new genuine parts. Idk how they're doing $7 per injector. It's either counterfeit chinese or poorly reconditioned used. $32/injector is worth it to me.

Then you'd have to get the spacers for the fuel rail and the USCAR plugs.

[GBull]

Ok, sorry for the dumb questions. I got it sorted... finally... I mean you put it RIGHT in front of me...
I ordered a set of 12613412's and needed spacers and harnesses.
Thanks

I did buy from rockauto.