3.0 explorer ST Looking for some calibration Help

[SlowSTExploder]

Hello everyone,

im working with a 22 Explorer ST that i purchased, I've been searching the forums, and on other sites, so that i can wrap my head around HPTuners and how ford designed these PCMs to work.

my Explorer is 100% stock, I've been messing with tune for a few weeks, trying out different methods, seeing what works best. After a few iterations later, i found myself more inclined to tune this with some limiters intact to aid me incase i goof it up and send the rods to space X.
Now on to the good stuff, I'm trying to get my desired turbo airflow up, I've tried messing with Outlet pressure table, raising desired TIP, Etc. i haven't been able too get passed 31 Lbs\M of desired airflow, yet my actual will climb to 41-42 Lbs/M on the top end, i just want to be able to get them to match, preferably keep my actual turbo airflow up and not have to bring it back down to match desired.

another thing ive ran into is turbo FMEM limiters and wastegate limiter, i've tried playing with overspeed limits, requesting more from ECM 3630 airflow limit and ECM 3631 wastegate limit, ive tried raising them to the cap and or going up 10% at a time, i must not completely understand how these limits work or maybe im just missing something here..

how can i get past these turbo airflow limits? i dont want to completely disable them if i dont have to, also how can i request more desired turbo airflow?
also my spark advance stays between map point 7, 8 , 9, mostly on boarderline, but the timing is all over the place, going from 2.0 to 5.0 back to 2.0 during a pull, i can only assume the ecu puling and adding timing to keep torque under control in conjunction with the throttle plate... do i need to wait for my KOM to hit 1.0 for spark advance to settle? i know i get "popcorn" and combustibility limit, which all that i can fix. just want some more info on how i can get my desired vs actuals all to line up.

im not trying to achieve a certain psi out of these turbos, well atleast not yet...

stock explorer ST
fuel:91 (eventually e50)
4500ft of elevation
5500+ DA 2500ft DA lowest

attached is my most recent map and logs, ive seen way to may post about people logging way to much channels so ive did two seperate pulls, 2nd to 3rd, one logging sources, spark etc. the other logging what the ecm is doing with the wastegates etc.

i will appreciate any help and pointers that i get, to help me understand these PCM better.

[SlowSTExploder]

Update:

so ive been playing around some more with the turbo settings, got things a little closer.
i used desired canister pressure and Pressure Differential [ecm 19621] to line up TIP Actual and TIP desired, one thing i run into that i still dont know how to fix is my Proportional gain is demanding 2000% during spool up at low rpms, im gonna venture to see which Duty Cycle Base table actually controls the Gate.

ive learned that boost offset Table [ECM 24838] is not an adder like i thought it would be, i tried to add 12.5 psi to it, to see if it would demand more desired TIP but it did not, in fact it reduced both TIP actual and TIP Desired.

im still fighting injector limit at low rpms around 3k rpms, I've moved up Max Inj to 283 deg to match EOI clip of 100, didnt help, next maybe mess with 1-shot intake?

turbo limits still popping up at 5k so ill keep plugging away at that.

modified5OSmyst22_wastegate fix.hptresetpull12boostfix.hpl

[SlowSTExploder]

Update 2:

So got around to playing around with the tune some more. So far I've reverted my boost tables back to how I thought they worked..
Airflow --> Turbo charger ---> min TIP vs Airflow: this table is absolute pressure, I left the 0 to 15lb/min column stock, from 20lbs/M up, I set my desired TIP to 20 to 24 psi on the upper ranges ( 20 psi - 12.5 psi = 8psi) 12.5 psi is my barometric pressure.

Airflow ---> Turbo ---> Max TIP vs Turbo Airflow: i rearranged the lbs/min column since they were all 42lbs/min, spaced it out starting at 30lbs/min to 45lbs/Min. I set my desired TIP 30psi in the lower ranges, up to 37psi at 45lbs/min.

Max pressure i set to 37psi

Pressure differential: I'm still messing with this table trying to see what it actually does.. if I have higher numbers in the upper map vs rpms, tip dersired starts to get wonky, if I set the table to 2.00 all across, tip desired tracks tip actual alot better.

Pressure Drop: this table i multiplied the tables by .50, basically cutting those values in half, helped bring up my TIP Desired and TIP Actual in to the 72 InHg range.

With boost tables arranged this way, i was able to get the turbo to light up faster, but also controlling the boost curve how I expected/wanted it to work. Peak boost is right around 21 psi tapering down and holding 15psi to redline.

Im still running in to the popcorn on my torque Airflow limit and combustion stability during the pull, not sure how to get around that without disabling popcorn completely.. ill post the log tomorrow, once I get that figured out, I'll work on smoothing out the MP spark tables and squeeze some more power out of it.

[SlowSTExploder]

As promised, im using my boost channels to log right now if anyone needs more data to be able to help me get around these limiters, i can definitely accommodate..

[SlowSTExploder]

Well it seems like I've gone the wrong way with this, all the changes did was inflate the turbo model, yes I got more TIP actual and desired, but the inferred rpms when up as well, soooooooo don't mess with the high pressure drop table, I'm gonna scrap the whole tune and start over

But you don't learn what tables do unless you try them out, the next venture is increase indicated torque tables and inverse tables from the bottom row, than take Max torque tables 1-3, and make a nice stable smooth realistic torque curve, and than match driver demand tables to that curve and see if i get more desired TIP. I have little hopes that, it'll work but .... I gotta try it to rule it out!

[joe111599]

Thanks for your input on these things. I am trying to find time myself to dig further into my 22 ST. Tuning these newer cars is not like the old hondas/acuras or even the newer GM cars. I had a 2017 Camaro that I learned a lot about and this 22 ST has nothing in common LOL.

[joe111599]

At this point, I really dont have the time to dig too deep into this thing and may just pay to have it tuned.

[SlowSTExploder]

Right? I can tune the shit out of an evo but this st is kicking my ass lol
I understand the basic concepts and the limiters etc. But alot of the inferred parameters, I think is whats messing with me.

Which takes a little work to figure out, but I think im on the right track now just testing more tweaks as I drive with thing around (family man with limited time)

I'm getting close, I got TIP actual/ desired to track evenly, but now I'm having TB closers up top with no limitations indicated.

It hit 21psi and torque actual to desired torque is like 7ftlbs off so it's close, until 4500 rpms and up, my torque actual plummeted compared to my desired torque and schedule torque, even with TIPs being up

[SlowSTExploder]

went back to the drawing board, instead of changing pedal position start\end from 50%\75% i left it stock.
the SUV feels alot better, the mid range is awesome, but the top end still drops about 100TQ between actual and desired, the only thing i have limiting me is LSPI table, but they are set high enough on the top end to not get limited.

wastegate limit comes on at the very top end of the rpms, recording turbo airflow is 42lbs/m, so i cant figure out why its not getting up there with the TQ. my throttle is still closing down to 32% so im gonna zero out the boost control settings, and set the base WG tables to fully open which i assume is -23InHg\ 1.0, since its a vacuum actuated gate and just dial in the boost that way to hit my desired TQ and see how much the top end actually needs to hit my desired TQ. if i cannot reach it with boost, than im gonna have to play with ignition timing. being at altitude sucks

[turbogt46]

Im in the exact same boat as you. I have a 23 ST and boost was falling hard after 5000 rpm, same as you (20 psi down to 15 at 6000). Im also at 12.0 psi atmosphere in Denver, the altitude deff sucks, a lot of people dont understand our high altitude woes lol. One thing I have been working on is using the COBB spreadsheet. It's helped me to move up to 17 psi at 6000 rpm now. Havent had much time to do more changes but I hope to jump back on this thing and get more out of it. You can download it from there website if you search for COBB ford tuning aid. After countless hours of reading forums and everything, seems like the issue is in the SD tables increase the boost.


It's all the way at the bottom of the website. After countless hours of reading forums and everything, seems like the issue is in the SD tables increase the boost.

https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wik...d+Tuning+Guide

[JLawson240]

Raise the Calculated Map Max in speed density to 90 in/Hg to give it some headroom. And you also need to raise or max out all of the Max Torque tables in the Torque Management tab. You also need to hit the torque truncation tables in the trans tab. See if that helps

[SlowSTExploder]

Raise the Calculated Map Max in speed density to 90 in/Hg to give it some headroom. And you also need to raise or max out all of the Max Torque tables in the Torque Management tab. You also need to hit the torque truncation tables in the trans tab. See if that helps

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the max torque tables 1-3 seem to not be in use , as the TQ hysteresis low and high are -7000, so raising or making the tables won't do anything since it's not actively looking that up?

I've since raised the trans torque truncation table, after I got a "in gear" limit on one of the TQ Limits, haven't gotten that since than.

Would it even be able to calculate up to 90 inHg since it's 2bar map sensor?

[SlowSTExploder]

Update:

got the SUV to run good, im running into combustion stability limits in certain gears, even though i have combustion stability disabled on all torque source and airflow limit clips, plus in torque management as well..

the throttle for the most part is staying mostly open, some spots it closes down to 40% but other than that itll stay at 100% open, during spool up and 50-70% during the pulls, TIP is tracking every well, i feel like thats not my issue.
MAP from desired airmass also tracks well with MAP Actual, in some instances, they deviate slightly, but im not sure how to correct that without touching SD tables or TTL? maybe aircharge multi MPs?

also turbo airflow desired vs actual also has a large deviation... so weird that un the upper rpms is where i get the most drift between them, and also i cannot get vehicle to hold 400tq up in the upper rpm ranges, ive gotten the boost to hold 17ish pounds passed 5k than taper it to keep out of the overspeed limits.. but actual torque PID drops down to 350 town to as low as 320tq... while both ETC TQ and Desired TQ stay around 380 to 400TQ.. and also im running into Tipin Det limiter, i dont see any of those tables active or have a ignition advance limit. need some extra eyes, brains or help trying to figure that out, please and thank you!

heres the lastest cal. with two diff logs one is 4th gear only (log 12) and has 2nd and 3rd and some of forth. (log 12-1)

[SlowSTExploder]

in my quest for more boost in the higher RPM's,
ive seem to have stumbled in some weird logic that goes on with our boost control tables.

ive read threads where people play with Min./Max vs turbo airflow, and see no results using the close loop boost control logic.
now i don't know if these logics change from model to model. but on the explorer ST 3.0s it seems that Min./Max tables is Relative pressure based.
i always thought they were absolute pressure based (atmospheric + boost target), if i set the lowest value in the Min. table from 10psi to 18psi @40lbs/min, the boost would hold 18psi in the upper rpms.

so what i've done is set Min./Max tables equal to eachother and tested, i was shocked to see that my actual boost curve, followed the min./max tables closely.
Expected tip seems like a reference table for desired tip so ill set that up to copy the log at a later time and test.

if anyone can confirm or wants to test this out, id appreciate it, for now im gonna refine the boost curve and see how well i can get it without messing with the canister pressure tables.Screenshot 2025-01-09 220440.png
Screenshot 2025-01-09 214737.png
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Screenshot 2025-01-09 215236.png Screenshot 2025-01-09 215254.png Screenshot 2025-01-09 215318.png

[turbogt46]

I'll roll back a few revisions and give it a try this morning and see what happens with mine, its a 23 ST. I'm curious.

[SlowSTExploder]

Please do! Make sure you redefine your max vs. Turbo airflow on the y axis like mine or similar and not have them all at 40s

[turbogt46]

So here are the results.... unfortunately, boost kept going down like it did before. Tables are very similar to yours.
boost1.JPGboost2.JPGboost3.JPG

[SlowSTExploder]

So here are the results.... unfortunately, boost kept going down like it did before. Tables are very similar to yours.
boost1.JPGboost2.JPGboost3.JPG

Thank you! It looks like you have some throttle closure there.

What was your airload desired vs actual?

[SlowSTExploder]

heres mine i just barely did with the min/max tables setup at 18psi up top

Screenshot 2025-01-10 204931.png Screenshot 2025-01-10 205034.png Screenshot 2025-01-10 205428.png

[turbogt46]

Comparing your log and mine, our airload is identical at 5500 rpm, even though your running 1 psi more. Im at 2.02 17.0 psi and youre right at 2.00 18.0 psi.