Still looking for part data

[anotheridiot]

Does anyone have sources for data on injectors. I know I overthing everything, which is why I try to stay out of here, but this is the situation. We bought a 2008 Silvarado to get the 6.0, good heads, regular transmission, etc. Ended up using it in our car with a manual transmission, so we had no way to get VSS data to the computer. So the suggestion was made to go to a 2009 Corvette with manual trans computer so we had the correct pins of 71 and 72 to get data. So we decided to give this one more try before going to Holley or Aces again.

Anyway, my process is go to rock auto and check part numbers of the particulars when things are not right, considering we still have 2008 truck parts including intake on the car. Some parts are the same, 02 sensors had different plugs than our harness, but we were able to verify and repin since they rotate 90 degrees. The MAF was also able to get repinned, but when I get to the MAP, the corvettes is a bolt in and the truck is clip in, so they cant be swapped. Now we are still getting 5 mpg on this tune so I go to injectors. If the vette is dealing with different injectors, then the tune from the truck will not make sense to it. We saw on the bottom that apparently the vette had the variable pressure pump, because there are settings at idle where the pressure says 35. When we get our MPVi3 back after warranty repair again, we can get back into this. First thought is to try to change that pressure to the constant 58 we have and try to adjust all the settings again.

But I cannot find any injector data anywhere. So when you swap do you actually have to plan to get the exact parts that were on the 09 vette to get this to work? I know in the past, asking for mileage was borderline disrespectful when the engine screams, but the vette came from the factory at 16 city manual and 15 automatic. I know running a sloppy stage 2 is going to drop it, but we get 10.5 in the sloppy stage 1.5 (picked because it was not supposed to need a converter swap)/

So bottom line, I go from the 08 Silvarado to the 09 Vette and get different injectors, so all I am trying to find to make this work in my head is either cc/min or lb/hr of each stock injector. I am guessing giving the same electrical pulses to a 29 pound injector and a 60 pound injector is going to change from spray to dribble.

[gtstorey]

No part number for your injectors given that I can pick out, no tune and no log. Not sure what you are looking for here.

[anotheridiot]

No part number for your injectors given that I can pick out, no tune and no log. Not sure what you are looking for here.

Just sources to find the information on parts. The MAP sensor is different, so calibration will be different.

09 Vette uses 12576341 injectors. Silvarado uses 12580861 injectors.

I am not looking for simple answers so I can ask about every part, I am asking for sources on the internet where they say what the ratings are for the parts. Right now its injectors. When it still wont run, then we need to determine the calibration of the MAP sensor. So instead of asking for a fish to eat, I want to learn how to fish because this is hopefully not the only LS swap we will be doing.

320.00 is money that can be spent for other improvements instead of just going out and spending more to buy a 09 corvette fuel injectors, or getting an intake from a 2009 corvette to gamble that would make the car run right.

[gtstorey]

If GM parts, find a GM tune in the repository that uses that part. And with injectors, one that has the same fuel system. Or ask on here about the Indvidual part. Or search this forum for the part number. There isn't a single "internet source" that will have anything defined. And especially injectors have multiple pieces to the injector data, not just flow rate. If you have injectors that you can't find all of the data in GM format, get some that has all of the GM format data.

[blindsquirrel]

19421333 - 29lb, various non-flex Gen4 trucks (alt# 12580681)
12587269 - 33lb, LY6/L76
12569113 - 33lb, car LS2 (alt# 89017586)
12594512 - 36lb, LMG/LC9 '07-'09
12613411 - 38lb, LMG/LC9 '10-up
12576341 - 42lb, LS3
12609749 - 50lb, L92/L94
12613412 - 51lb, L96
12598646 - 52lb, LSA/LS9

12580426 - 35lb @58, 33lb @51 L59 (alt# 88894361)(Gen 3 only)

There are two versions of the Gen 3 L59 12580426 data - 2004 & earlier trucks used those with a referenced/return type fuel system at 51psi (this was the only LS that used something other than 58psi). 2005 & newer had the same injectors, but had a returnless fuel system the same as all the other engines, and at the same 58psi. The data for whichever style fuel system comes from whatever year stock file had the same system.

The Gen 4 19421333 & 12580681 are the same injector just with a different connector (Multec vs. EV6). They were used interchangeably in 2005-2006 Gen 4 engines, just with a different connector on the harness.

GM Gen4 injectors converted to Gen3 format for P01-P59 PCMs.xls

injector dimensions3.jpg

GM MAP Data and PN.png

A pretty good source for part numbers (stock injector numbers, at least) & other specs:
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2019/...gine-upgrades/

[blindsquirrel]

Injector data does not directly copy over from a 2008 E38 to a 2009 E38, the axis labels changed in '09 (128-640kPa column labels in '08-down, 128-768 in '09-up - but they have the same number of rows/columns, so it's possible to paste the data in without obvious errors, but the data will be wrong). But almost all of the Gen 4 injectors were used on both sides of that early/late change. All you have to do is find the injector part number, find which applications/years used that number, then find a stock file for that engine RPO that's on the correct side of the 2009 breakpoint for the ECM you want to copy the data into.

[anotheridiot]

Injector data does not directly copy over from a 2008 E38 to a 2009 E38, the axis labels changed in '09 (128-640kPa column labels in '08-down, 128-768 in '09-up - but they have the same number of rows/columns, so it's possible to paste the data in without obvious errors, but the data will be wrong). But almost all of the Gen 4 injectors were used on both sides of that early/late change. All you have to do is find the injector part number, find which applications/years used that number, then find a stock file for that engine RPO that's on the correct side of the 2009 breakpoint for the ECM you want to copy the data into.

Thank you so much for answering. I was getting alot of good information from that Repository thread that you were answering everyones questions in. I actually got to page 4 and found one of the injectors in question. The way I see it is this thing is running super rich because of the way the injector is spraying. Some of us want to learn, not just have the work done for us. All I was trying to see is how different the injectors were from the switch to gen 4.

I did get a response from Standard Motor Products, since I was able to find part numbers for their injectors, and they wrote back as:

Hello,

The information is not available to the public.

The FJ988 data:

Static Flow Rate 262 gm/min ? 6% (Stock Corvette)
Dynamic Flow Rate 8.39 mg/pulse ? 5% @ 2.5 ms Pulse Width

The 12580681 crosses to FJ887:

Static Flow Rate 188.00 gm/min ? 6%
Dynamic Flow Rate 6.88 mg/pulse ? 5% @ 2.5 ms Pulse Width (Stock 08 Silverado, engine in the car)

The F1062 data:

Static Flow Rate 214.00 gm/min ? 6%
Dynamic Flow Rate 6.40 mg/pulse ? 5% @ 2.5 ms Pulse Width (Stock in cutaway van same year as tune from vette, injectors
we have from servicing our cutaway)

So even different verbage, but looking at how many mg of fuel is passed with each pulse would make me think that it makes me wonder if its rich or lean. Less fuel gets thru a pulse, it should be lean.

Anyway, there is mostly idle trouble, but the bottom of the page is saying it was only expecting 35 psi of fuel pressure, so using the same pulse with 58 psi is definitely part of the problem. We are just trying to figure out the right way of getting it to run better.

[gtstorey]

Quit worrying about how it is "spraying". There is much more to this than that.
https://injectordynamics.com/article...racterization/

[anotheridiot]

Quit worrying about how it is "spraying". There is much more to this than that.
https://injectordynamics.com/article...racterization/

Thanks, thats alot more helpful that just telling me to post my problem and let someone fix it for me.

[blindsquirrel]

12580681 is super common, and there are stock files out there for just about every ECM/PCM type. Here:

E40, which has tables very similar to the earlier Gen 3s:
2006 Trailblazer 6.0 1GNES13H562262494 2046355114.hpt

'early' E38, with 128-640 axis labels:
2008 Silverado 1GCEC19J28Z240561 E38 5.3 LY5 4L60 1214830015.hpt

'late' E38 with 128-768 labels:
2009 Silverado 1GCEC29J59Z188589 E38 (late, 127lb) 5.3 LY5 4L60.hpt

[blindsquirrel]

You write these run-on novels trying to explain what you're trying to do, and you get responses with tons of info, and yet, according to the view counter thing none of the attachments have been clicked on. There is information here that clears up much of your confusion. Use it.

[anotheridiot]

You write these run-on novels trying to explain what you're trying to do, and you get responses with tons of info, and yet, according to the view counter thing none of the attachments have been clicked on. There is information here that clears up much of your confusion. Use it.

I had opened that on all cylinders link from your other thread. Everything made sense to me, until I opened up the 2009 Corvette tune in HP tuners and the columns did not go to 768. They stopped at 640. I downloaded that 09 Silverado tune as a compare file, as well as a 2009 Trailblazer 6.0 after I found they all used the injectors that are in the car, just like you suggested I did. So what made the most sense did not apply. I did mention we were waiting for our MPVI3 for a week getting repaired for a power issue so we could not write any changes until late in the evening.
Sorry I let you down, I did what you suggested on my own, which is why I did not open your final three links. I still appreciated it.

[blindsquirrel]

Didn't even click on the pictures.

I have skimmed back through this thread and don't see where I posted any Corvette files? "2009" is a transition year. All 2008s were 'early' with the 63lb IFR limit and 128-640 axis labels, all 2010s were 'late' with 127lb IFR and 128-768 axis labels. In the early 2009 production, it could have been either one. Most true MY2009 units are 'late', but not ALL.

What data are you looking for, specifically? What injector p/n, and what ECM does that data need to go into? Answer like this: "Injectors are 12345678, my ECM is service number 87654321 and here is the tune file that's currently in it."

[anotheridiot]

Didn't even click on the pictures.

I have skimmed back through this thread and don't see where I posted any Corvette files? "2009" is a transition year. All 2008s were 'early' with the 63lb IFR limit and 128-640 axis labels, all 2010s were 'late' with 127lb IFR and 128-768 axis labels. In the early 2009 production, it could have been either one. Most true MY2009 units are 'late', but not ALL.

What data are you looking for, specifically? What injector p/n, and what ECM does that data need to go into? Answer like this: "Injectors are 12345678, my ECM is service number 87654321 and here is the tune file that's currently in it."

I meant opened OUR 2009 Corvette Tune that is in the E38 computer we got to replace the e38 that was in the 2008 Silverado.

Injectors are 12580681 and ECM service number is 12612384. Clutch master started leaking so the car did not make the trip today, I will need to grab the computer when I get home and pull that tune file tomorrow. The other control part of this would be the MAP sensors being different.

[blindsquirrel]

There is a neat picture up above with all the MAP sensor types and part numbers and their specs. You should click on that, and then save it somewhere so you can refer back to it when needed. Courtesy of Alvin/PCMofNC.

This file has 12580681 injectors, in the 'early' 128-640 labels.
2008 Silverado 1GCEC19J28Z240561 E38 5.3 LY5 4L60 1214830015.hpt

You can select all/copy/paste each of the tables, or use Compare function + View Comparison Log and right click to copy the needed tables under Fuel > Injector Control. Those would be ONLY: Flow Rate vs Press, Min Injector Pulse, Offset vs Press vs IGNV, & Short Pulse Adder. Do Not accidentally right-click and do Copy Over All Differences, even if you right-clicked on the specific thing you wanted. That will copy everything different in the whole file.

[anotheridiot]

Learning alot along the way. What is the deal with electronic throttle tables? Why cant 10% be 10, 25% be 25, based on speed, they are not in relative line until 160. 0 is 0, 100 is 100, but most of city driving, 0-25% goes from 0 to 3 in some cases maybe up to 10. I go back to taking a modis or ethos and relearning the pedal, then see these tables and realize that I was verifying these tables by going from not touching the pedal to flooring the pedal and 10% did not calibrate to 10.

Thats why my mind is not set up for this stuff that does not make sense. We had started our learning on Holley snipers on small blocks and as soon as you reset the throttle for idle, it tells the computer its 10% when you know damn well its not.

Speaking of learning, I know Aces and Holley sell because of their learning pitch. Do these GM computers go thru their cycle and actually learn like those or are you giving it parameters that are not allowed to change?

[blindsquirrel]

Knowing other systems/manufacturers only helps you if you are able to remind yourself that there is no reason for any of them to be related in any way whatsoever in how they do things. Whether that's specific like GM vs Ford, or generic like cars vs industrial controls.

[RDF1]

Learning alot along the way. What is the deal with electronic throttle tables? Why cant 10% be 10, 25% be 25, based on speed, they are not in relative line until 160. 0 is 0, 100 is 100, but most of city driving, 0-25% goes from 0 to 3 in some cases maybe up to 10. I go back to taking a modis or ethos and relearning the pedal, then see these tables and realize that I was verifying these tables by going from not touching the pedal to flooring the pedal and 10% did not calibrate to 10.

Thats why my mind is not set up for this stuff that does not make sense. We had started our learning on Holley snipers on small blocks and as soon as you reset the throttle for idle, it tells the computer its 10% when you know damn well its not.

Speaking of learning, I know Aces and Holley sell because of their learning pitch. Do these GM computers go thru their cycle and actually learn like those or are you giving it parameters that are not allowed to change?

DBW doesnt use a IAC. So 0% APP will never equal 0% TPS.
0% APP just means your not touching the pedal so ECM/PCM just uses this info for idle control and such.
TPS will be whatever it needs to be to control idle at this point.

Snipers have tons of issues with Sensors so id throw that out the window. TPS is reset ("relearned") every time the ECU is powered up.

Factory ECM/PCMs use TPS Voltage and they have a limit for what it needs to be for it to be 0%TPS.