GM Event Recorder...End of Tuning???

[MustangEater825]

We just had a thought...

Let say we bought a 2nd PCM, swapped it in, tuned it, and whenever car saw the dealer, we put the stock pcm in. From what we heard there are no "clocks" timing hours on the car, and comparing it to say the BCM.

SO in theory we can swap in a 2nd pcm and be good, then throw the stocker in that has never been used.


Granted this raises costs. Seems like we can get one, pull from our stock pcm, and flash onto the new pcm.





As for the morality, I am not trying to kill the shit out of a car. Car likely won't be seeing any mods, just looking to do a few small tweaks, I already have HPT just adding a license. I just know if say I threw a set of bigger wheels on and recalibrated the speedo, there is a good chance they will ditch my 5yr 100k powertrain warranty.

[ajt86]

i work at a gm dealer, and most of us know whats going on

when a LT1 TA comes in with a rod through the block and a plug in the intake about 8" from the TB and NO2 bottle brackets in the hatch- we know what went on

it all depends on A- what kind of mood we are in and B how much you playing effected what went wrong


if a normal repair pays 3 hours, and its a warrenty claim- we get at most about 2.5 hours- prolly 1.5 hours, thats why we arent bending over backwards to keep it a warrently ticket

if you know your local GM tech, they will let one slide, but when i get a camaro in with a K&N filter and an oiled up MAF wire causing codes- and i dont know you, i call the service manager right up and park it


and for everyone that mentions the magnussen act or whatever, you wouldnt beleive the creativity zone reps and service managers have to make your aftermarket equiptment void the warrenty- its easier than you think

[90 Regal GS]

my thought is this .....and let me say I am not saying that you did this, but, if you came in and were a dick or did somthing to piss off the service writer or tech they will go out of their way to make your life more difficult. Sort of like finding reasons not to do warrenty work on your car. Or if you always go down there to claim warrenty issues about little crap and are a general pain in the neck they will not want to help or do any favors.

Let me say again I am not saying you are a jerk or a pain in the neck. I just know the above to be the truth.

[MustangEater825]

my thought is this .....and let me say I am not saying that you did this, but, if you came in and were a dick or did somthing to piss off the service writer or tech they will go out of their way to make your life more difficult. Sort of like finding reasons not to do warrenty work on your car. Or if you always go down there to claim warrenty issues about little crap and are a general pain in the neck they will not want to help or do any favors.

Let me say again I am not saying you are a jerk or a pain in the neck. I just know the above to be the truth.

Thats the definite truth... I work in a "customer service position" completely not related to car dealers... but its true, you come up and I see it was a problem, I've given back money and free crap to come back more then once, for free. At the end, it really isn't my money, and everyone likes happy people.


You come up demanding shit and being a pain in the ass, I say "sorry for the inconvience" in an asshole way. You overreact and go nuts, I know doing you a favor is not going to make you happy, you are pissed beyond belief.

[starks]

could you buy an extra pcm, pull the stock and put the new one in. license that one, do all your tunning then when it comes time for warranty work, put the stock one back in

[maxchevy]

From what l read GM cannot use a Event Recorder without the customers agreeing to them doing so correct me if l am wrong. Here is the link l found
http://www.gm.com/corporate/responsi...ders/index.jsp

[05HD]

You guys trying to weasel your way around getting your warranty voided are the ones that always wind up getting the big void stamp. Bieng up front and honest with the person fixing your car still goes a long way at most GM dealers. They aren't out to void everyones warranty like say, Mitsubishi is, for example. Hell, we used to warranty the S10 torque converters the local Impala SS club guys were so fond of swapping in, knowing full well what they were up to. The clowns with the odometer cutoffs or bottle bracket imprints in the trunk carpet and claiming warranty got the big fat VOID though...

[RWTD]

LOL, SCT and DiabloSport are both addressing the flashing issue.

And, yes, Ford has a system that they could use to determine the flash history/count. It started with some of the Focus vehicles, and is possible in the '08 6.4 diesels. However, they haven't implemented it yet within the IDS tools for the dealers, so at this time it's a mute point.

What it boils down to is simple: If the part didn't fail because of the tune, then your warranty really shouldn't be voided. The dealer isn't going to look for some incriminating evidence if they do not think you have anything to hide.

I'm with the others, you should find a dealer that you can have a personal relationship with without fear. You can find them, too!

[bowtietech]

I've been a Chevrolet dealer technician for over 30 years so I have seen alot when it comes to modifications vs. warranty. Honestly,at my dealer we do not go looking for reasons not to cover a repair under warranty. It has to be blatantly obvious that the modification had anything to do with the root cause of whatever the failure is here.

[b_faster]

These conversations always turn into a session of self confession. Those that truly understand the cost to play and those that feel the manufacturer should cover anything that the consumer can hide.


My truck has a $5g tranny upgrade and about $3g in the engine, all of this was done long before the warranty was even close. I dont expect GM to stand behind the rear axle, I wish they would fix my clunking steering shaft under warranty.

As others have said, if you are going to play, man up when you screw up.

[EC_Tune]

^^^ Here Here!!

[RCSBcolo]

regarding this issue, the dealer can't fix your problem and THEN tell you they are not covering it under warrantry can they?

[warp_6]

You want to mod up, be ready to man up. That's
the deal. Man Law.

+1

[CoolBlueSS]

I've been a Chevrolet dealer technician for over 30 years so I have seen alot when it comes to modifications vs. warranty. Honestly,at my dealer we do not go looking for reasons not to cover a repair under warranty. It has to be blatantly obvious that the modification had anything to do with the root cause of whatever the failure is here.

That's the way it is here where I work. I've been in this business for 22 years, and it does have to be pretty blatant to be voided. It also depends on attitude. You come in being a complete a-hole demanding stuff, then you're fixing to be SOL. If you're courteous and understanding, then we'll go out of our way to do what we can.

Still, in the end, if you're going to play, then you gotta pay.

[CoolBlueSS]

I've been a Chevrolet dealer technician for over 30 years so I have seen alot when it comes to modifications vs. warranty. Honestly,at my dealer we do not go looking for reasons not to cover a repair under warranty. It has to be blatantly obvious that the modification had anything to do with the root cause of whatever the failure is here.

That's the way it is here where I work. I've been in this business for 22 years, and it does have to be pretty blatant to be voided. It also depends on attitude. You come in being a complete a-hole demanding stuff, then you're fixing to be SOL. If you're courteous and understanding, then we'll go out of our way to do what we can.

Still, in the end, if you're going to play, then you gotta pay.

[RWTD]

GM can verify a tune on newer vehicles if they check the CVN.. They have the system in place for the newer vehicles but its up to them to use it.

Keith (or Chris), curious, if the backed-up factory tune is reinstalled into the vehicle via HPT, what would the CVN comparison show? I do not yet know that if the factory flash is re-loaded back into the pcm, via the same method the aftermarket flash was, if the CVN comparison will show any differently, but I do plan on doing this soon to determine such (if you don't already know the answer).

I did find this below:

#PIP4386: Identifying Aftermarket Engine Calibrations - (Apr 8, 2008)


Subject: Identifying Aftermarket Engine Calibrations


Models: 2005-2009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks

except Pontiac Vibe, Chevy Aveo, and All Saab Models




------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- -


The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the
symptom(s) described in this PI.



Condition/Concern:
A dealer may have the need to verify engine calibrations. If a dealer feels an aftermarket power-up calibration has induced engine and/or drive train damage, there is now a way to verify what calibration is currently in the vehicle.
If a suspicious hard part failure is observed in the engine, transmission,
transfer case, or driveline, perform the calibration verification described
to determine if a non GM issued engine calibration is installed. Non GM
issued engine calibrations subject driveline components to stresses
different than those that these components were validated to. Repairs to
transmission, transfer case and / or other driveline components where a non GM engine calibration has been verified, are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

Recommendation/Instructio ns:
Instructions for confirming Calibration Verification Number (CVN)
• Go to TIS2WEB

• Select Calibration Information (SPS Info)

• Enter VIN

• Select "Get Cal ID"

• Select ECM Engine Control Module

• Hit "next"

• Select "Complete History"

• Print

Take Printout to Vehicle along with Tech II
• Plug in Tech II

• Go to diagnostics and build the vehicle

• Select Powertrain

• Select the engine

• Select F0 - Engine Control Module

• Select F4/F5 - I/M information System / Module ID information*

• Select F1

• Compare the calibration ID and Calibration Verification Numbers
(CVN) to the Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) on the printout.

* This step may vary by controller; use the Module ID Information in the
Engine Controls.

Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it's the CVN that will
determine if the calibration is GM issued.

If ALL of the CVN's are EXACTLY the same, the calibration is GM issued.

If the part numbers match and ANY calibration verification numbers (CVN's) do not match the printout, it is likely that a non GM certified calibration has been installed.

In order to document the case - a CLEAR digital picture should be taken of
the TECH 2 screen showing the VIN and the CVN's that do not match the
TIS2WEB printout. The picture and a PDF copy of the TIS2WEB printout should be forwarded to [email protected] for verification along with the VIN and the reason the vehicle is currently in for service. Please copy your GM Area Service Manager (DVM/DSM) on the e-mail. GM will verify if the CVN's are not GM issued and respond via e-mail within 48 hours.

If both the Part numbers and the CVN are different, photograph the part
numbers and CVN's on the tech 2 screen as described above, assuring the VIN shows clearly in the photograph of the TECH2 screen, and check to see if the vehicle has the latest released calibration. If the latest released calibration is not installed in the vehicle, the part numbers will not match, and the CVN's won't either. E- mail the original Part Numbers and CVN's found in the vehicle on the TECH 2 to: [email protected] to check if the calibration and CVN matches a previous release. Recalibrate with the latest released cal and re-check against the part numbers and CVN's that are released.


Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete eachstep. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

[Chris@HPTuners]

if the factory calibration is installed the CVN will be correct. However, in most cases there are other ways to tell if/when the controller has been programmed via some kind of calibration history features being implmented. It varies between PCM's but in most cases it exists.

I think it's a sad way for the industry to go if some are trying to bypass these kinds of features (kinda biting the hand that feeds you). The solution is to confirm with your dealer that tuning the vehicle will not void your electric window warranty (or whatever) and if something in the powertrain breaks expect to pony up for a new part. Like somone else said, if you don't act like a moron in most cases you won't be treated like one...

In days gone by many hotrodders took pride in the fact they could break a factory part on a racetrack and "had to install XYZ custom part cos the factory part has weaknesses", factory powertrain warranty was laughable. I remember taking my car to a dealer for a warrany fix for a faulty door lock solenoid. At the time my car had a supercharger, quite a large cam installed and a loudish exhaust. As i cammed into the service center i had maybe 5 guys including the service manager around the car asking all about it. We all had a laugh as i told them i was on my 3rd clutch, 2nd gearbox and the diff was noisy, a little about HP Tuners etc. etc. I went over to see the sales guy that sold me the car originally and he came over and had a look. His first comment was something like "now this is how we should make them in the showroom", lol. I think he was a little horrified to learn that people actually want to modify a new car so much...

Anyway, I told them i was writing down the reading on the odometer becuase there was no reason they had to drive the car to fix the doorlock (i had also put a valet tune in there just to be sure there would be no tire shredding test drives). I ended buying 3 cars from this dealer over the next 5 years and they still ask me about the Monaro whenever i go there.

In most cases dealers love this stuff (imagine all you got to work on all day, everyday was stock vehicles and deal with people who only know how to put the key in their car and put the gas in). But, if they think you are trying to pull a fast one they will get tough on you, and so they should. Now they have some extra tools to know what you have been doing.

[Texsrt4]

regarding this issue, the dealer can't fix your problem and THEN tell you they are not covering it under warrantry can they?

nope, price has to be told to you up front, before work has been done

[Stingray123]

In most cases dealers love this stuff (imagine all you got to work on all day, everyday was stock vehicles and deal with people who only know how to put the key in their car and put the gas in).

Hey, I resemble that remark I'm a GM tech and I like to see modded cars come in the shop, it's just very rare they come in. Not all dealers try to deny warranties whenever they can, but unfortunately some do

[Kris_LS1]

I love it when a modded car comes in, but thats once in a blue moon, But I've seen cars that are modified get away with warranty.

PS, I'm also a GM tech (Holden).