Suggestions for curing sluggish throttle response

[BBA]

What were my thoughts...I just remembered reading about people experimenting with it in other post such as the one linked above and decided to experiment.

[BBA]

Hey Bill, did you notice any difference in your LTFT's being smaller?

Sure did. The are now very slightly hovering between 0 and -5 but close to 0 most of the time.

Interestingly enough, here is a little side topic: I played with air filters and found when I used a free flowing oil type filter, the car seemed lazy and went from 0 to +5 LTs, so I knew I would either adjust for the free flow filter or go back to stock, well, not having a wideband I played it safe and went back to the stock, mostly to avoid other things like oil problems on the maf sensor.

That just tells me a free flowing CAI and retune will get me a little more power but is it worth the cost?

[BBA]

Did you guys do any dyno or strip testing with these settings changed?

[Vettepartz]

I made these changes to my 2007 C6 except I added 0.001 to each cell in the filter and left the Delta TPS at 1%. I noticed that when cruising around 35-45 mph it seems to take much less throttle than before, the same thing 5litereater noticed. Also, my STFT are very close to zero most of the time when logging.

[BBA]

I've been playing with adding more and it seems to respond well to it.

I think I really need to scan it with a wideband on to see if it really effects AFR much or not, but I like what it does. I was able to get rid of the flat spot just after launch by doing this and WOT actually feels like it's pulling now instead of just reving to the shift point.

[Joe_G]

I've been playing with adding more and it seems to respond well to it.

I think I really need to scan it with a wideband on to see if it really effects AFR much or not, but I like what it does. I was able to get rid of the flat spot just after launch by doing this and WOT actually feels like it's pulling now instead of just reving to the shift point.

How much and what did you do exactly? My car's running great... but heck, might as well try a little more I guess!

[BBA]

0.03635 0.04434 0.04939 0.05432 0.05939 0.06403 0.06963 0.07523 0.08115 0.08574 0.09134 0.09694 0.10254 0.10814 0.11374 0.11934 0.12494

This is an '07 TBSS. Yours will be different.

[StarCaller]

any updates?

[Joe_G]

any updates?

I made a spreadsheet mistake and have 15%, 10%, 5% and 3% of the factory values in the first 4 cells, which translates to:

0.02807 0.02035 0.01099 0.00591

However, the car is very responsive and LTFT's are nice and low. I'm very happy with this mod. Mileage seems to be up but not enough tanks run through yet to make that claim just yet. I can surely say the car is much more fun to drive without the sluggish throttle response. Nice mod.

[BBA]

I found another fix for off the line bog...get rid of ALL negative values in the timing tables. Either completely zero all the negatives OR go even positive until you get KR and back off in the offending cells.

Makes a NICE difference for taking off at WOT from a stop light.

[LazMan]

I agree with BBA

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14885

[BBA]

I agree with BBA

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14885

It's only a matter of time now, everyone is going to jump on the bandwagon with us.

[LazMan]

The fact that GM has taken that approach lends credibility.

I kind-of ran into this once. I had pasted the Vette 7.0 timing tables in to reply my GTO tables. The throttle response was awesome. So was the knock retard because it was too crazy a set of numbers. I ran this just for one day and hated the return to sluggishness when I went back to the stock tables.

Right now, I run some crazy tables, open loop MAF all the time, with "lean" areas for economy. I'll email you my current tune tonight if you'd like.

[BBA]

The fact that GM has taken that approach lends credibility.

I kind-of ran into this once. I had pasted the Vette 7.0 timing tables in to reply my GTO tables. The throttle response was awesome. So was the knock retard because it was too crazy a set of numbers. I ran this just for one day and hated the return to sluggishness when I went back to the stock tables.

Right now, I run some crazy tables, open loop MAF all the time, with "lean" areas for economy. I'll email you my current tune tonight if you'd like.

Sure, I'd love to see it, not that I plan on running open loop anytime soon but I bet there is something in there I can learn from. (I haven't vested enough time logging to get the equivalent VE stuff setup, mostly because I don't have a VE table to directly edit).

[Joe_G]

I found another fix for off the line bog...get rid of ALL negative values in the timing tables. Either completely zero all the negatives OR go even positive until you get KR and back off in the offending cells.

Makes a NICE difference for taking off at WOT from a stop light.

Saw this, looks very interesting. But I've got a manual trans and in my logs I've never hit these cells.

The mod in this thread has made my car drive almost like stock. It's just great. Thanks for posting this up BBA!

[LazMan]

Joe, I don't think our E40 PCMs are using a fast enough data rate to see those cells being hit.

Well, that and you will be at higher RPM by the time you gun it. However, the new vettes all use + timing there, take a look in the tune depository.

How do you like that cam??? Do you think it would work "ok" on an otherwise stock automatic with 3.46 gears? (I.E. a GTO?) (with new springs?) I'm hungering for some mods.

[Joe_G]

Joe, I don't think our E40 PCMs are using a fast enough data rate to see those cells being hit.

Well, that and you will be at higher RPM by the time you gun it. However, the new vettes all use + timing there, take a look in the tune depository.

How do you like that cam??? Do you think it would work "ok" on an otherwise stock automatic with 3.46 gears? (I.E. a GTO?) (with new springs?) I'm hungering for some mods.

Sure enough I have some negative timing values. But they stop at 800-1000 and I idle at 850, and I never lug the engine that low to hit those cells.

I am very happy with this cam in the 6.0 with the E40 computer. It really is like stock driving around, never dies, never stalls, starts hot or cold (cold as it gets here lol), etc.

I don't know if your stock converter would handle 850 idle though.. I've got a manual. I guess you could raise your idle and check it out. I don't think you can go much lower on the idle. You don't need gears though. I have them and love them, in fact I'd recommend you get those before a cam, they are a more dramatic difference than a cam. They make the car feel 500 lbs lighter.

[LazMan]

It doesnt get cold here either (Miami). I'll play with the 850 idle and see.

As for the gears ... I'm hesitant to go to 3.73's. The gto comes with 3.46's stock, whcih is pretty good, and the fuel economy already suffers since I have a 4-speed.

I appreciate the input though

[Joe_G]

I thought I had posted up about my car's sluggish throttle a long time ago....

Well I was right and here's the fix. My car was tuned to be sluggish from the factory!

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21714

This change made all the difference. Car finally feels snappy now. 05 guys need to do this mod!

[kgb]

I thought I had posted up about my car's sluggish throttle a long time ago....

Well I was right and here's the fix. My car was tuned to be sluggish from the factory!

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21714

This change made all the difference. Car finally feels snappy now. 05 guys need to do this mod!

I have an 05 and installed the Beta 2.23 a couple of weeks ago. I made the "throttle plate opening" adjustment but ended up restoring it back to stock. IMO there are other (perhaps a combination of) things contributing to the 'sluggishness'. I'm glad it worked for you, but I was not overly impressed. For example, when disabled the knock burst becomes more obnoxious; reduce the knock burst the throttle starts to feel a bit soft.... My point is all these settings work together and I think the stars have to be aligned for things to work great.