3800 Table Requests...

[johnh]

3800 L32 Table Requests (L67 likely similar)
My OS ID: 12596138


Incorrect Tables: Auto TCC Apply release Tables appear to be incorrectly mapped, they state TPS% by values look to be MPH. This was viewing my stock file.


MAF Low Frequency Threshold (low value in which MAF is disabled; useful to do VE Tune, so you don't have to unplug the MAF)

Knock Retard Recovery Rate (Deg/S) Rate at which PCM recovers from KR; by RPM
Knock Retard Default Value (Deg by A/F Ratio) (We have Maximum)

Supercharger Boost Ramp Rate (rate at which boost is brought in)
Catalyst overtemp boost protection (Cat Temp at which boost solenoid is opened for cooling) I thought this one was in there but couldn't find it.

Any other tables relating to boost control, I had heard the Boost Solenoid in the 04+ is controlled via PCM....I believe this..at part throttle, my boost will *increase* on 1-2 shift when the TPS % doesn't change.

Any tables relating to TQM closing the TB. I do have to test this with TQM Disabled, weather permitting.

[Bill@HPTuners]

can you post your file when you get a moment john?

[johnh]

Here ya go.

[Chris@HPTuners]

3800 L32 Table Requests (L67 likely similar)
My OS ID: 12596138


Incorrect Tables: Auto TCC Apply release Tables appear to be incorrectly mapped, they state TPS% by values look to be MPH. This was viewing my stock file.

they look fine to me, they are the apply/release speeds in mph

MAF Low Frequency Threshold (low value in which MAF is disabled; useful to do VE Tune, so you don't have to unplug the MAF)

sure i can add it, workaround until then is to unplug the MAF

Knock Retard Recovery Rate (Deg/S) Rate at which PCM recovers from KR; by RPM

can be added

Knock Retard Default Value (Deg by A/F Ratio) (We have Maximum)

this is only used if a knock sensor fault is present

Supercharger Boost Ramp Rate (rate at which boost is brought in)

this is the ramp rate only after a boost cut due to torque management occurs, it's not used otherwise.

Catalyst overtemp boost protection (Cat Temp at which boost solenoid is opened for cooling) I thought this one was in there but couldn't find it.

it's mislabelled for now, it's called Boost Timer Max, under Engine, Airflow.

Any other tables relating to boost control, I had heard the Boost Solenoid in the 04+ is controlled via PCM....I believe this..at part throttle, my boost will *increase* on 1-2 shift when the TPS % doesn't change.

Any tables relating to TQM closing the TB. I do have to test this with TQM Disabled, weather permitting.

i don't belive there are any other tables relating to controlling boost. Only the torque management limits, Max Tq vs RPM vs Gear, Max Tq vs Gear, Max Tq vs RPM

[johnh]

Cool, thanks, Chris, Bill for the fast response...

I will have to check on the laptop but I think its the labels on the TCC apply tables....the values seemed ok.

Adding the two would be great.

[Bill@HPTuners]

The maf fail frequency parameter can be added on a case by case basis if its really needed, personally I've never seen the need to perform a VE tune on my 00 gtp since from what I've been told its not utilized when the maf is active which is why many of the calibrations simply have 80% all the way across the board lol and therefore I've never asked for it to be added to even my calibration.

The axis seems to be marked correctly as Throttle position by % and the values within are mph.

-Bill

[90 Regal GS]

personally I've never seen the need to perform a VE tune on my 00 gtp since from what I've been told its not utilized when the maf is active which is why many of the calibrations simply have 80% all the way across the board lol and therefore I've never asked for it to be added to even my calibration.

-Bill

Your new gang of 3800 guys, I am sure, will dissagree with you on this one. I dont have the time now but I am sure one of them will chime in on this as to what has been seen by doing it.

[Bill@HPTuners]

Your new gang of 3800 guys, I am sure, will dissagree with you on this one. I dont have the time now but I am sure one of them will chime in on this as to what has been seen by doing it.

They can disagree all they want, but I'll take Chris's word on it

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...5&postcount=15

guys, it works like this in the code:

1. the MAF is used all the time in normal conditions ie. P0101, 102, 103 not set.

2. there is an option thats sets what the PCM uses for airflow if the MAF fails, it has a few different options: Zero, Speed Density or MAF Estimation. Usually this is set to Speed Density. MAF estimation is similar to Alpha-N style tuning.

3. it looks like the VE can be calibrated to be used during transients, but this isn't done in any cals i have seen. Possibly GM has never tested that code or never found a need for it.

A simple test would be to set your VE table to zero and see if the car still runs.

Hope that helps,

Chris...

[bilemke]

A couple quick additions..

Knock Retard Recovery Rate appears to be Knock Retard Decay in HP Tuners

MAF Low Frequency Threshold, do you have MAF Fail High in the Engine Diag>Airflow section? If so, just set the number to zero for tuning ve if you dont want to unplug the MAF. It just sets the opposite code of what you were trying to trigger with MAF Low Frequency Threshold (I guess it would be MAF Fail Low in HP Tuners).

[Perforator]

this is the ramp rate only after a boost cut due to torque management occurs, it's not used otherwise.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this Chris.
I changed mine in the PT from 1.0 to 1.4 and the boost definitely ramps faster so I don't think it only applies during torque management actions... Anybody else use this?

[Chris@HPTuners]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this Chris.
I changed mine in the PT from 1.0 to 1.4 and the boost definitely ramps faster so I don't think it only applies during torque management actions... Anybody else use this?

yes you are correct, my bad (misread my own notes). will add that one to the list as well.

[devildog9999]

Your new gang of 3800 guys, I am sure, will dissagree with you on this one. I dont have the time now but I am sure one of them will chime in on this as to what has been seen by doing it.

Ahhh Yes. The V6 VE tuning dilema! With all of the new V6 guys coming in in droves, perhaps we can bring Bill to the "darkside" and show him the usefullness of doing it!

[johnh]

I double (er..triple checked), the TCC apply tables are correct..my bad, sorry.

I have seen differences with boost ramp rate, typically with respect to transient KR/burst KR (the KR you see when you stomp it initially vs. KR at the rpm top end).

I have also seem to have seen more stable LTFTs with a tuned VE table.....I guess it would be an interesting test to make it all 0s and see what happens. I'd do that but the weather kinda sucks for that sort of thing. EDIT/UPDATE: See V6 Section...I tried a 0 VE table...car doesn't want to start, stalls runs like total crap. http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...618#post112618

Knock Retard Recovery Rate appears to be Knock Retard Decay in HP
Tuners

Not on mine... KR Decay has numbers from 453 @ 0 rpm to 68 @6400. The "other" tuner I have 9.99 degrees down to 1.5 @ 6000+ rpm. I don't know what the units are on the HPT...

[99BLACKGT]

are there already lean decel mode tables? (sorry i'm a dhp guy looking to switch over SOON)

[Chris@HPTuners]

are there already lean decel mode tables? (sorry i'm a dhp guy looking to switch over SOON)

yes both AE and DE are in there.

[viper04af]

They can disagree all they want, but I'll take Chris's word on it

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...5&postcount=15

i agree i set my hole to 200 and the car ran fine nor did it affect my maf tune, WOT was also fine....

now if the maf is unpluged it will not run lol

[Trannyman95]

Since my thread never got answered to months ago..... What is the outlook on adding IAC adjustments? Idle and startup airflow adjustment really needs to be added to the 3800 carlines. I think it was Chris that I emailed on this almost a year ago and you mentioned being really busy with updates and didnt know if/when it would be added but is there any future for this to be added? Also alternater cutoff rpm would be benificial. Thanks!

[Tyson]

Since my thread never got answered to months ago..... What is the outlook on adding IAC adjustments? Idle and startup airflow adjustment really needs to be added to the 3800 carlines. I think it was Chris that I emailed on this almost a year ago and you mentioned being really busy with updates and didnt know if/when it would be added but is there any future for this to be added? Also alternater cutoff rpm would be benificial. Thanks!

Couldn't agree more the iac counts are what cause the rich condition well running mafless ve tune.only problem to running with no maf is when above 20mph when taking foot off throttle completely iac counts drop to 40-50 instead of the 70-80 with the maf pluged in if there was a way to correct the iac counts well coasting you could run a ve tune on the 3800 cars. Could send a scan of this info