KR Devastation! *pic/scan/config/tune included

[Shazbot]

Greetings Comrades..

So I was just going over some of the scans I made before winter hit, and I found one that I meant to post earlier. Hellafied KR and not even at WOT! I have experienced this before(but not this severe), what I thought was tip-in KR or something, it seems to happen when I downshift. Sometimes I see 2* other times I have seen 10* spikes. Much of the time when I go to pass someone or play around I goose it just a little bit to downshift so I can take off without lagging a little. Thats where I see the KR bursting or is it tip-in KR? Someone please explain the difference between them to me..

As the pic shows, massive KR!

Any ideas?

[Shazbot]

I see many lookers but no one has anything to say in regards to the Mount Everest that represents my KR?

[BlackGS]

Are you calculating boost correctly? That scan shows 15psi. I didn't think that was possible on a 3.4 pulley. If you are somehow getting 15psi, then that KR is probably accurate, and you need to get that pulley off there quickly!

It doesn't look like false KR, or the shift KR I typically get. That is prolonged and steady. Do you have similar scans that show no KR?

Edit: I looked at the full scan. Your boost psi on the chart is off. Calculate boost as MAP - 100 * .145. So, you are running about 7-8psi on the first WOT with the massive KR. Your O2's are way low, especially on the later runs. They are sometimes not even getting into the 900's. You will need to increase PE and/or MAF, and if that doesn't help, you have a feuling problem.

[Shazbot]

There have been a few instances during a 3-1 downshift where I would go WOT and have generated 15psi before it peters off(measured on boost gauge). Scared the crap out of me so I stop doing that months ago. That particular run was not even close to WOT so I do not understand how such massive KR can be there at that point in time.

I have not messed with boost calculations whatsoever, they are default, however I will change it to your prescribed equation, when I can... damn snow

My headers are arriving here in two weeks, along with a FP rewire. Hopefully they will help me out some...

[Perforator]

Your scanning MAP (kpa) and your chart is showing MAP (psi). Not sure if you can do that. If you export it to a csv file, your boost looks normal, the highest being MAP (kpa) of 178 or around 11 pounds of boost. As far as your KR goes, man I never seen it that high before, lol. Seems odd your getting 14 degrees at part throttle. In the future you should add Commanded AFR and FT Cell to your scans.

[Perforator]

I just looked at your bin file. You know you zeroed the Retard vs % Torque Reduction table meaning you disabled torque management during shifts. Maybe that's why your getting knock on the downshit?

[KShef]

i get the same thing after the converter locks.... i quickly goto about 30-40 throttle and get up to 14KR
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Scuderia serenissima

[98gtp]

I'm betting on false.

your running 8lbs of boost with that much KR, sorry shouldn't happen. its most likely false. something is hitting something it shouldn't.

[Shazbot]

WOT nets me 6-8* of KR if I get on it, I will get 5-6* if I ease into WOT.

Granted my mods allow me to run a 3.4, they do not eliminate my KR. I know what I need to do to rid myself of KR for the most part its just that 14* of KR really miffed me.

Perforator, I did not realize it until now but when I first got my tuner I was just looking around at stuff and noticed all TM was off. I did not set it this way however I am running ZZP's 1.0 file. Apparently they disable TM with their commerical bin file which is surprising to me, it makes NO mention whatsoever in reading about the file on their website. I have no intention of enabling TM again, but it sounds reasonable that no TM could be causing my KR issue.

[Perforator]

I have no intention of enabling TM again, but it sounds reasonable that no TM could be causing my KR issue.

Change it back to stock and try it. It'll take 5 minutes and may save you a lot of headache.

[Onyx Dragon]

WOT nets me 6-8* of KR if I get on it, I will get 5-6* if I ease into WOT.

Granted my mods allow me to run a 3.4, they do not eliminate my KR. I know what I need to do to rid myself of KR for the most part its just that 14* of KR really miffed me.

Perforator, I did not realize it until now but when I first got my tuner I was just looking around at stuff and noticed all TM was off. I did not set it this way however I am running ZZP's 1.0 file. Apparently they disable TM with their commerical bin file which is surprising to me, it makes NO mention whatsoever in reading about the file on their website. I have no intention of enabling TM again, but it sounds reasonable that no TM could be causing my KR issue.

I'm not so sure. I have an 04 GTP Comp G with the 3" DP (stock has no DP), an MSP CAI, and a 3.4 and a 3.5. I also run a 180 tstat to help with heat, and was still seeing KR. I ended up having to lower my PEM to a lower RPM, in addition, I cut back the timing. At the dyno with the 3.5 as opposed to the 3.4 and enough of the timing pulled to kill the KR, I netted just 10 HP shy of the new 3 valve mustang GTs. Are you sure that ZZP (not knocking them, I got my 3" dp from them) didn't make it too aggressive, or maybe not tune it right? WHen did you notice this KR problem? How much have you tuned the PCM yourself or is it just what ZZP did?

I'm also tending to agree with whoever said something is tapping on something.

[Shazbot]

Are you sure that ZZP (not knocking them, I got my 3" dp from them) didn't make it too aggressive, or maybe not tune it right? WHen did you notice this KR problem? How much have you tuned the PCM yourself or is it just what ZZP did?

I'm also tending to agree with whoever said something is tapping on something.

It was ZZP's standard off the shelf performance bin. There was no supplemental tuning done by anyone except me and that was very light MAF table tuning.

The KR problem has existed the entire time(few months since 3.4), I didn't know to what extent until I got my HP Tuner. I consider myself pretty lucky, I had been beating on the car consistently, only when I acquired my tuner did I see the trouble and start taking it easy...

[JerryH]

I am not sure about the 2001s but the '99's have a 2 stage fuel setup. One part used under boost and another one used while in boost. They are controlled by a fuel relay. If that relay is out, you get no extra fuel while in boost causing an extreme lean condition. Are your O2s above 930 when in PE mode?

Also, I am not really fond of the ZZP tune. I've seen inside... its not really well thought out.

It could also be something else that you did... hard to say.

Whatever you do... do NOT assume this is false KR. 99% of the time it's quite real for whatever reason.

Silly question time: When was the last time you replaced your fuel filter? If you cannot recall when, or know when and the answer is "never"... you are WAY overdue.

[Shazbot]

I am not sure about the 2001s but the '99's have a 2 stage fuel setup. One part used under boost and another one used while in boost. They are controlled by a fuel relay. If that relay is out, you get no extra fuel while in boost causing an extreme lean condition. Are your O2s above 930 when in PE mode?

Also, I am not really fond of the ZZP tune. I've seen inside... its not really well thought out.

It could also be something else that you did... hard to say.

Whatever you do... do NOT assume this is false KR. 99% of the time it's quite real for whatever reason.

Silly question time: When was the last time you replaced your fuel filter? If you cannot recall when, or know when and the answer is "never"... you are WAY overdue.

The fuel filter was replaced less than 6 months ago.

I checked the scan, O2s never made it above 924 during the part throttle run that exhibited the massive KR.

[devildog9999]

Your fueling (IFR) table is basically stock, you are set to enter PE @ 30% TPS all the way across the board, and are leaning it out up to 55% throttle in the PE Fuel adder VS TPS. Knock decay and attacks are way off as well. Put a stock bin back on it, and start over from the beginning IMHO. Use one of the basic tuning guides to get started, they are very helpfull.

[Shazbot]

Your fueling (IFR) table is basically stock, you are set to enter PE @ 30% TPS all the way across the board, and are leaning it out up to 55% throttle in the PE Fuel adder VS TPS. Knock decay and attacks are way off as well. Put a stock bin back on it, and start over from the beginning IMHO. Use one of the basic tuning guides to get started, they are very helpfull.

ZZPs tune will not garner the same results on every car, with that in mind I think I will just try to make do with what I have. I am not experienced enough to reflect some of the features I enjoy that the ZZP 1.0 bin comes with. Thank you for pointing out the PE Fuel adder vs TPS table, I had been pondering a good method for adding more fuel. I can only hope that the the various mods I am doing this winter will have a significant impact on the issues I am having. Unfortunately tuning has to wait until Spring..

[JerryH]

Honestly, the only part of the ZZP bin worth keeping is the transmission settings (and barely even at that). Use those, start over from scratch with the rest. Don't worry, if you work slowly and carefully, you can advance in your tune over and above the ZZP bin in short order. If you feel lost, just reflash the ZZP bin back and you are right where you were from the start.

Being able to tune is what you bought a tuner for!