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Thread: MALT Massaging..

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down MALT Massaging..

    So.... Apparently I have one of two issues:

    1. Poor driving habits have led to a glazed clutch

    OR

    2. Clutch was/is not a fan of 380 lb/ft TQ

    Solution(s)?
    • Adjusted driving habits for a much quicker release of the clutch while going through the gears/staying off of throttle until clutch is out (especially that pesky damned 1-2 shift)
    • Pressure bleed brake/clutch fluid thoroughly
    • Massaged MALT in order to tame the torque spike


    Leaning towards issue #1 because as of late; I've been driving way too softly, shifting way early and slipping the clutch after engaging another gear. Before, when I drove pretty aggressively and was mindful of the clutch, it held and held well! Time will tell but after about 100 miles of being mindful of the clutch, she's holding while passing folks in 5th gear (10lbs of boost or so).
    09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol

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  2. #2
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    I would choose

    D. New clutch.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    anything over 360ish is testing the stocker pretty good. expect to buy a new one if you keep it up

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iam Broke View Post
    I would choose

    D. New clutch.
    Hard pill to swallow to drop a grand to put a clutch in the car and then gamble with possible drive-ability issues. Besides, my wife would most likely want to castrate me

    I could definitely get away with another stocker though... Have a great hook up and could pick up a PP/Clutch for about $100.

    Quote Originally Posted by BackyardTurbo_FTW View Post
    anything over 360ish is testing the stocker pretty good. expect to buy a new one if you keep it up
    Yea, maybe I need to torture the clutch and force it into submission!

    Loaded a tune with a massaged MALT to see how that works out. Will report back and let you guys know whether or not I'm successful in my attempt.
    09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol

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    Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
    Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan

  5. #5
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    I've beat the shit out of my clutch and it is holding strong at close to 50k now. All of which have basically been tuned. Tune only, then tune with e48, now I'm dual tuned at 24psi with bolt ons. Only slips in 4th and 5th if I'm at under 4k.

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    The constant slipping starts to glaze the flywheel and then it becomes more noticeable everywhere

  7. #7
    i am going to try this to make the clutch last a bit longer atleast thru the winter, 4th and 5th slip so bad on the highway. on this table what happens over 4000rpm is everything 100% torque?
    '09 cobalt ss. hahn intercooler, intake, cp,catless downpipe, ottp stage 2 mounts, hptuners, gmpp 3bar tmap sensors, hybrid hp tuned

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by '09SS View Post
    i am going to try this to make the clutch last a bit longer atleast thru the winter, 4th and 5th slip so bad on the highway. on this table what happens over 4000rpm is everything 100% torque?
    Not sure if it's interpolated or if it's 100%, can't remember how Chris explained it.

    **Update**

    Successful WOT 2-3-4 with no slip

    60-100 testing next.
    09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol

    Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
    Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
    Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by '09SS View Post
    i am going to try this to make the clutch last a bit longer atleast thru the winter, 4th and 5th slip so bad on the highway. on this table what happens over 4000rpm is everything 100% torque?
    Yeah I've wondered about that too, does it all go to 100% over 4k or stay at whatever you put in the 4k cell? Easy way to find out is put it at 50% in the 4k cell and see what happens, I don't remember if I ever tried that. I'm thinking it goes to 100%, maybe I did try it and forgot! When I was trying to figure out what the table did, I tried 2nd gear at all 100's except for putting 50% in only the 3k to 3.5k cells. It was pretty funny, went full throttle and boost till 3k, power died until 3.5k, then it went back to full throttle and boost! Yep, that's a good table!

  10. #10
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    if massaging the malt helped, what exact numbers did you use?

  11. #11
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    Don't have HPT on my work laptop. Will post when I get home.
    09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol

    Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
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  12. #12
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    cool. did you do your 3rd gear pull yet??

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    Quote Originally Posted by skip_jones View Post
    cool. did you do your 3rd gear pull yet??
    Yep, WOT from 3rd around 3500 and no slip. Lights 2nd gear up again instead of slipping. Here's my DAL & MAL table's:




    I've found that drive-ability is extremely improved as well.
    09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol

    Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
    Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
    Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan

  14. #14
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    thanks t-man. i am going to try this. sorry i didn't see, are you stock or
    are you running gm stage 1 sensors? does the car still feel like it pulls strong
    in 3rd? no more boost spike? what's max boost its holding? sorry so many questions.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by skip_jones View Post
    thanks t-man. i am going to try this. sorry i didn't see, are you stock or
    are you running gm stage 1 sensors? does the car still feel like it pulls strong
    in 3rd? no more boost spike? what's max boost its holding? sorry so many questions.
    No problem bud. Stock with S1/Sensors. Boost "spike" isn't 100% gone but it's much improved. Max boost is 22psi and it feels just as strong as it did before and I think a lot of that has to do with the timing I run.

    That was going to be my next place to start dialing it down but so far, so good.

    Good luck man.
    09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol

    Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
    Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
    Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan

  16. #16
    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    This is what I run on my own car now, the boost comes on immediate and holds flat. It never spikes then drops or any of that, took quite awhile to get it this smooth but it def takes massaging of both tables!!

    If you find you are spiking hard then it drops, then picks back up. Reduce the MAL like you did to bring it in smoother then work on the load around that area. Reduce it slightly just before the spike and increase it just after. Should see it hold flatter and the car will feel stronger up top when you don't lose steam with the boost dip! Since switching to this the cars Ive dyno'd have been holding the power much flatter above 6k!

    I was just talking with Term a bunch about this the last month or 2.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackyardTurbo_FTW View Post
    This is what I run on my own car now, the boost comes on immediate and holds flat. It never spikes then drops or any of that, took quite awhile to get it this smooth but it def takes massaging of both tables!!

    If you find you are spiking hard then it drops, then picks back up. Reduce the MAL like you did to bring it in smoother then work on the load around that area. Reduce it slightly just before the spike and increase it just after. Should see it hold flatter and the car will feel stronger up top when you don't lose steam with the boost dip! Since switching to this the cars Ive dyno'd have been holding the power much flatter above 6k!

    I was just talking with Term a bunch about this the last month or 2.

    Thanks for sharing Nick. I've been playing with this a lot lately and experimenting with how the DAL & MAL play off of each other.

    To make it short, I see what you did there

    Question is though, how accurate is HPT only going to be when we don't have the WG control in order to truly make the MAL/DAL work together (efficiently)?
    Last edited by T-Man; 01-16-2011 at 03:26 PM.
    09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol

    Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
    Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
    Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan

  18. #18
    Senior Tuner Iam Broke's Avatar
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    You still have wastegate control, it just tapers more up top than the 'other' base file option. Leaving the WG DC limit at 95% still lets it try to hold more boost at higher rpm is all, it still can't.
    '12 Camaro T3 2SS/RS LS3 M6, SLP TVS 2300, Flex Fuel

  19. #19
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    I hold like 20-21psi up top with my hhr with bolt ons with the dual tune. I wish I had what tune is on my car right now so I can try a couple things, but I don't want to lose the master tune thats on my car right now from imphat0260. Current tune is awesome for sure.

  20. #20
    Senior Tuner BackyardTurbo_FTW's Avatar
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    Ive run those tables on straight HP cars and the boost is smooth as well. You may just need to slightly raise the DALS in the last column depending on the car.