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Thread: Too much of a good thing - Spark Advance

  1. #1

    Too much of a good thing - Spark Advance

    Ive looked around to try to find some information on this and im not getting the clear answers im looking for.

    Can I just add until I start to see knock? For instance right now Ive bumped up almost everything by a few degrees took away in a few spots that did have knock, in the top two rows im as high as 46 degrees for cruising

    I know of some people stating that they are running 25 degrees at full throttle under higher boost than im running

    Ive attached my tune its for a 2007 Cobalt SS stock exhaust, stock injectors

  2. #2
    Tuner in Training
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodimus_Prime
    Ive looked around to try to find some information on this and im not getting the clear answers im looking for.

    Can I just add until I start to see knock? For instance right now Ive bumped up almost everything by a few degrees took away in a few spots that did have knock, in the top two rows im as high as 46 degrees for cruising

    I know of some people stating that they are running 25 degrees at full throttle under higher boost than im running

    Ive attached my tune its for a 2007 Cobalt SS stock exhaust, stock injectors
    why's your a/f so rich in pe? also, is there any way u can attatch a scan, atleast a 3rd gear pull, prefferably a 4th? timing table looks very clean. no holes in it at all, unlike what mines looked like not too long ago LOL. if your on stock boost then you should be able to run higher timing but u really should invest in meth or atleast a egt gauge. on 23 degrees with my 2.8 and 42's i was very surprised to see that i was very close to 1400 degrees. also, id move delay rpm to atleast 3k rpm, ud be surprised to see how easy it is to hit 55 kpa. ive noticed that the car would go a hair rich even though the desired tps wasnt reached. ur pe enable tps hot is perfect too.

  3. #3
    thats the factory PE table, I know its commanding 10.8

    ive moved the PE delay to 2500 rpm

    I dont have any recent scans to upload

  4. #4
    heres my most recent log

  5. #5
    Advanced Tuner redhotjamedjimi's Avatar
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    ive got like 9 degrees more spark at .88 @ 5888 rpm. this is my daily driving tune and no knock in high octane. keep going. i havent even seen any knock and about to keep going. im using colder plugs at .40 and checking the plugs for knock too.
    2006 SS Cobalt SC
    Stage 2 ZZP Cams
    Headers, 3.0" Full ZZP Exhaust
    60lb inj. Intake.
    2.8 Pulley
    72# Lb. Supertech Springs
    LNF Ext Valves and lashers
    Cobre H/E, option B.
    Torque Damper
    HPTuned.
    Bitchin'
    .

  6. #6
    well thats good to know, I know things are a bit conservative right now

  7. #7
    Tuner in Training
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    thats a preety good amount of timing 2nd gear is seeing

  8. #8
    Tuner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodimus_Prime
    Ive looked around to try to find some information on this and im not getting the clear answers im looking for.

    Can I just add until I start to see knock? For instance right now Ive bumped up almost everything by a few degrees took away in a few spots that did have knock, in the top two rows im as high as 46 degrees for cruising

    I know of some people stating that they are running 25 degrees at full throttle under higher boost than im running

    Ive attached my tune its for a 2007 Cobalt SS stock exhaust, stock injectors

    Of all the phases of tuning, adding timing is where being on a dyno is most critical. You can street tune the Fuel and the VE and or MAF tables but adding timing should be done on a dyno. You have to look at it from this prospective. the purpose of adding timing is so you can maximize the power output of your vehicle, correct? With that said, you shouldn't just add timing untill you see K/R because its quite possible that the point at which the vehicle stops making power and the point at which the vehicle will knock are nowhere near eachother. Example a car can level off its power levels (i.e. not make anymore power) after adding 15 Deg. of timing, but still not be showing a hint of knocking yet. Yor first instinct would be to keep adding timing untill you reach that threashold of K/R. lets say you reach 20 Deg before it starts to Knock so then you back down to 19 Deg. theres no point of going to that 19 or even 18 Deg, because the car stopped making power back when you were at 15 Deg. of timing and now with the 19 Deg. your right at that threshold of the car pulling timing (i.e. taking power because it may or has a greater likely hood of knocking.)

    Does that make sense?



    Also, it would make it easier/better to look at your log files with your configuration file that way we can see exactly what your logging. Right off the bat though I can see that your VE table need some work so does your PE Fuel Mulitplyer vs. RPM table Whats your AFR at? Please dont tell me your tuning with out a W/B.

    your VE Table needs some work
    Last edited by fullthrottle; 03-09-2008 at 05:40 AM.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by fullthrottle
    Of all the phases of tuning, adding timing is where being on a dyno is most critical. You can street tune the Fuel and the VE and or MAF tables but adding timing should be done on a dyno. You have to look at it from this prospective. the purpose of adding timing is so you can maximize the power output of your vehicle, correct? With that said, you shouldn't just add timing untill you see K/R because its quite possible that the point at which the vehicle stops making power and the point at which the vehicle will knock are nowhere near eachother. Example a car can level off its power levels (i.e. not make anymore power) after adding 15 Deg. of timing, but still not be showing a hint of knocking yet. Yor first instinct would be to keep adding timing untill you reach that threashold of K/R. lets say you reach 20 Deg before it starts to Knock so then you back down to 19 Deg. theres no point of going to that 19 or even 18 Deg, because the car stopped making power back when you were at 15 Deg. of timing and now with the 19 Deg. your right at that threshold of the car pulling timing (i.e. taking power because it may or has a greater likely hood of knocking.)

    Does that make sense?



    Also, it would make it easier/better to look at your log files with your configuration file that way we can see exactly what your logging. Right off the bat though I can see that your VE table need some work so does your PE Fuel Mulitplyer vs. RPM table Whats your AFR at? Please dont tell me your tuning with out a W/B.

    your VE Table needs some work

    So very well said!!!!!!!! I do not have a problem with making small adjustments to timing on the street, but you rerally need the dyno to know if it is making power, or losing power. Adding large amounts of timing on the street just is not a good idea.