What do I change to run E85 on my 07 Escalade

[brandonppr]

What needs to be changed? I can run it all the time and switch tunes back if needed.

The truck is all stock.

Do I just change the stoitch? The stock injectors should be fine with a stock vehicle right?

[EC_Tune]

Actually the E85 vehicles use a larger injector as E85 has a stoch point of 9.83 AFR

[Texsrt4]

if the software has the virtual sensor programed in, and we were to throw in larger injectors and adjust accordingly, wouldnt it work just fine?

[brandonppr]

Actually the E85 vehicles use a larger injector as E85 has a stoch point of 9.83 AFR

So if I kept the stock injectors would it be beyond there capacity?

[brandonppr]

if the software has the virtual sensor programed in, and we were to throw in larger injectors and adjust accordingly, wouldnt it work just fine?

How does a virtual sensor work?

Is the virtual sensor already set up?
If I filled up with E85 would it already adjust for it without changing anything in the tune or do I have to activate it?

[Braciole]

Whats the advantage of running E85?
I heard it robs HP. something else too cant remember??

[tahoe]

I heard it robs HP

It adds aprox 5%, mileage on the other hand is reduced by at least 30%.

//

[Braciole]

Doesnt seen worth it???
Am I crazy??
Mike

[brandonppr]

I'd rather spend my money on American fuel any day.
Loss in MPG varies from car to car and if the fuel runs best with higher cylinder pressure whether it be boost or shaved heads. You should see a higher improvement in both with raised cylinder pressure. E85 is like cheap race fuel at around 104 octane. Also runs cooler because its alcohol and also its running more fuel thru so that also cools the engine. Around here I just discovered a local pump and its about $1 cheaper than gasoline which should more than make up for the loss in MPG and give me more HP. If it does add 5% HP then I should make around 15-20 more hp just by changing and be cheaper.

I see tons of these type of threads turn into arguments over E85 and I don't want this to turn into one of those. I have did my reserch from reliable sources and I know this is the fuel I want to use and the only fuel I want to use unless something better comes along.
There are tons of threads about the pros and cons of the fuel though, but I need to figure out the answers to these questions and I will post my results in loss in MPG.

[BBA]

Well, Alcohol makes less power per volume burned, but burning more lets you make up for it with timing and higher CR.I think running the 10% stuff would be best for a non-flex fuel car, and that's usually around 10 cents less per gallon than pure gas. The O2 sensors will still adjust CL fuel to make it burn at lambda = 1 or so, but would lean out in WOT open loop so fattenning up the PE curves would be necessary.

I am really starting to think about this...maybe by adding a paxton and some flex fuel injectors it will work out pretty well.

[LazMan]

All under the "Fuel Control" "General" and "Fuel Control" "Power Enrich" tabs...

Quick and dirty answer (assuming no virtual sensor, permanently going to use E85 fuel):
Change the AFR table to 9.82 AFR across the board (instead of the numbers going from 14.70 to 9.0 you have there now, and multiply your PE table by 1.05 (Increasing it by 5%).

Quick and dirty answer (assuming virtual sensor):
Set "Flex Fuel" to "Enabled". Everything else should already be about right on a stock tune, with stock PE, as the stock tunes have high-enough values for E85 runs and/or different alcohol-based tunes altogether. If your PE is not stock, richen it by 5% just in case.

Caveat:
I do believe the fuel issue listed above by EC_Tune is correct, especially on larger engines. So, monitor your PE runs with the scanner and make sure you aren't excessively lean.

[Fox95]

E85, is awesome for supercharged apps.

I run it in my mustang that's supercharged with a YSi vortech, on pump gas it made 630ish hp, on e85 it went to 668 hp.

You can run a lot more ign timing with it for starters.

Plus the cooling effects of alcohol on the intake manifold are just another added benefit.

secondly e85 is like the equivalent of running somewhere around 105 octane race fuel.

You WILL need larger fuels injectors for it though as a +24-27% increase in fuel is needed across the entire fuel map.

I highly reccomend using this fuel for big hp boosted apps!

Fuel mileage goes to crap, but at $2.65 a gallon, who cares....!?


BTW:

When calculating Injector size for e85 fuels, use .8 for BSFC....
When calculating Injector size for Pump gas use .50-.60 for NA applications and .55-.65 for turbo/blown applications

ex:

(Max HP x BSFC)
----------------------------- = injector flow rate (lb/hr)
(# of injectors x duty cycle)



(600hp x .8)
------------- = 70.58 lb/hr injectors
(8 X .85)

Check this guy out for running bigger injectors than 60#'s :
http://www.acceleronics.com/versafueler.htm

Or:

http://aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=83





.

[GVBHunt]

All under the "Fuel Control" "General" and "Fuel Control" "Power Enrich" tabs...

Quick and dirty answer (assuming virtual sensor):
Set "Flex Fuel" to "Enabled". Everything else should already be about right on a stock tune, with stock PE, as the stock tunes have high-enough values for E85 runs and/or different alcohol-based tunes altogether. If your PE is not stock, richen it by 5% just in case.

Does this mean that the Virtual Sensor is disabled unless Flex Fuel is set to Enabled? I am wondering if the vehicle can properly determine fuel composition using something like e-10 if this is set to disabled....

[brandonppr]

Does this mean that the Virtual Sensor is disabled unless Flex Fuel is set to Enabled? I am wondering if the vehicle can properly determine fuel composition using something like e-10 if this is set to disabled....

That's what I am wondering. Can I just enable the General Flex Fuel and that's it as far as the PCM part of it goes? Is there anything else to change in the pcm? does this turn on the virtual sensor?

This is what I am talking about:

[Fox95]

That's what I am wondering. Can I just enable the General Flex Fuel and that's it as far as the PCM part of it goes? Is there anything else to change in the pcm? does this turn on the virtual sensor?

This is what I am talking about:

Im not a GM guy, but I am going to have to venture a guess at "NO" this is not the only thing you'll need to do.

I'd bet you'll need the ethanol sensor that's supposed to be in the gas tank and you'll need bigger injectors.

I don't think GM would have these neccesitys installed and disabled in the vehicle. doesn't make sense on a monetary point of view for them, and a selling point for that matter either, I mean why put all the things in the car that are necessary to run ethanol and not have it enabled in the VCM? It would be a selling point on their part to be able to put the little "FlexFuel" sticker on the back. PLus it's just a waste of money to have those items in the vehicle when they aren't used.

Go to a GM parts counter and compare Fuel tank sensor part numbers between your vehicle and a "known" flex fuel vehicle of the same make and year. and if they are all the same part numbers I'd say you have what you need.

[brandonppr]

Im not a GM guy, but I am going to have to venture a guess at "NO" this is not the only thing you'll need to do.

I'd bet you'll need the ethanol sensor that's supposed to be in the gas tank and you'll need bigger injectors.

I don't think GM would have these neccesitys installed and disabled in the vehicle. doesn't make sense on a monetary point of view for them, and a selling point for that matter either, I mean why put all the things in the car that are necessary to run ethanol and not have it enabled in the VCM? It would be a selling point on their part to be able to put the little "FlexFuel" sticker on the back. PLus it's just a waste of money to have those items in the vehicle when they aren't used.

Go to a GM parts counter and compare Fuel tank sensor part numbers between your vehicle and a "known" flex fuel vehicle of the same make and year. and if they are all the same part numbers I'd say you have what you need.

07's don't use sensors. From what I have found so far, they have different injectors and maybe rail.


I don't know all the specs on the 2009 escalade, but they are flex fuel. They haven't came out yet though as far as I know. It is still the same basic engine, but uses a different engine code.

[BBA]

So the 2009 Escalade fuel injectors is probably a happy medium between too big for street and just right for a big cam and heads LS2?

[Fox95]

I know the 08 tahoes use flex fuel, you might compare to that one, but the 08 tahoe I drove is a pretty big departure, overall design wise, from the 07's...

so this might not be the best one to compare to.

There has to be an 07 tahoe out there that was a flex fuel vehicle....

I'd look into it further if I were you.

The injector ratings just have to be different between flex and non flex vehicles.

Good luck and definately let me/us know your findings as, ethanol will deifinately be in higher usage in the coming years.

They're using pretty heavily in south america i know.

[brandonppr]

Where do I find one of these to compare?

Also if I just change the stoich to E85 stoich is that all I have to do if I'm not worried about being flex fuel? That is as far as the pcm goes I know about injectors etc.

[LazMan]

That's what I am wondering. Can I just enable the General Flex Fuel and that's it as far as the PCM part of it goes? Is there anything else to change in the pcm? does this turn on the virtual sensor?

This is what I am talking about:

http://www.gm.com/explore/technology...ors_060706.jsp
They started implementing this on 2006 vehicles (scroll down about 1/2 way), but there might be other "hidden" things in the tune that we cannot adjust / see in addition to "Flex Fuel: Enable / Disable".

http://media.gm.com/us/gm/en/news/pr...%209-15-05.htm
Plus you're all right on the injector size issue. (scroll down about 2/3 of the way)

Nonetheless, it'd be nice for 10% ethanol fuels. I just set mine to "Enabled" though and will try to find some ethanol to put in it. Say ... 1 gallon of it into a half-full 17.5 gallon tank ... giving me 10-12% ethanol fuel after I shake the rear a little, and then drive a day or 2 and scan.

The AFR at closed-loop should be 14.0:1 or so instead of 14.7:1 ... I'll let you all know the results of this experiment in the next week or so.