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Thread: saab 2.8l v-6 turbo support :)

  1. #21
    thanks Bill it seems to work, so what can we change, he he
    I was surprised to see all the tq management at 100% no tq management I can see, interesting!

    Is this similar to the DI engines with Desired air load? raise it 5-10-15% on the last 3 and the turnbo will do its magic? Dont see much in the way of fueling, any thoughts?

  2. #22
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    If its like the lnf DI engine then yes just increase the desired airload, as for fuel you should have a power enrich table and thats all you need for wot fueling.

  3. #23
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    Speed Limiter Options

    Bill,

    A couple of quick questions regarding removal or increase of speed limiters:

    Is the option to adjust the electronic speed limiter currently under development for this platform?

    2007 Saab Aeros are limited to 155 mph. 2006 Saab Aeros are apparently limited to 130 mph. As a last resort, is it likely that flashing a 2007 calibration file to the 2006 MY will carry over the increased limit?

    Thanks

  4. #24
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    Last I heard there wasn't anything in the code that appeared to be a speed limiter in the V6 calibrations which is why nothing is there so theres a good chance its not pcm based. If you could send us a .hpl scanner log showing the speed limiter(PLEASE DO THIS IN A CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT) to support at hptuners.com along with your .hpt file while logging things like commanded afr, injector pulse width, spark, etc. so we can determine what type of cut it is and see if we can pinpoint it in the calibration.

    As for writing an 07 file to your 06, although you can do a write entire it is NOT RECOMMENDED that you try changing operating systems as most of these newer pcm's can be bricked by trying to do so because of incompatibility.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  5. #25
    Tuner VTuner's Avatar
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    Bill,

    I am looking to inquire about adding a table to adjust the maximum allowed boost limit on the Saab 2.8Ts. The desired air load and maximum air load torque tables work just fine, however it is still possible to trigger overboost CELs under certain conditions and there is not currently a way to work around this. The limit appears to be fairly low, around 17 psi at the turbo.

    Thanks,

  6. #26
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    Do you get any codes?
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  7. #27
    Tuner VTuner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners
    Do you get any codes?
    Yes, P0234 - TC Engine overboost condition. Engine load is showing about 206% absolute when overboost occurs. I was targeting 190% absolute load in the tune so I am not sure why this particular car is over shooting my targets. The customer said at one point they had a 3 bar map sensor (stock is 2.5 bar) but indicated that they removed this prior to tuning. I am reducing the max air load torque to avoid the overboost condition since the engine is hitting the mass air flow targets I want well before overboosting, but the customer would like to run the higher boost level if possible. I suspect that there are several tables governing boost levels allowed at various barometric pressures to avoid over speeding the turbo. This customer is at over 3000ft elevation as well.

    Thanks

  8. #28
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    Can you post either your current or stock tune please.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  9. #29
    Tuner VTuner's Avatar
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    Bill here is a stock tune to review for the Saab platfrom. I sent an email to Support on Monday (10/6/08) for a couple of other issues that I will bring up here for discussion.

    The Desired air load and max torque air load tables are effective at raising maf air flow up to about 240g/sec, but then I am hitting a limit that appears to be software based. Raising load tables further does not result in additional increased airflow. The boost controller is opening the wastegate to prevent mass air flow above 235g/sec. I have logged this (see logs attached as well) with the stock 2.5 bar map to show how the Boost DC% is working. 95% DC appears to be the closed position and 0% is open (opposite of what I expected, but perhaps this ensures that failure of the boost solenoid results in limited boost). I can install a 3 BAR map and watch the DC% stay at 95% until 245 g/sec.

    I am also looking for a table to adjust when overboost conditions are triggered. This appears to be pressure dependent, not mass airflow dependent.

    A table to adjust engine displacement would also be very useful.

    Several scanner parameters are not working properly in the latest revision. I could create a custom PID for injector %duty cycle in 2.20, but it will not work in 2.22. I can log WB lambda, but can not creat a custom PID for AFR. Again, no apparent reason that the custom formula should not work. All the necessary inputs are in the primary table for you to try for yourself.

    Thanks much, you guys are doing an awesome job!



    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    Can you post either your current or stock tune please.

  10. #30
    Tuner in Training lmpreza's Avatar
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    Seems there are more checksum issues to be wrangled here. MY08 FWD Saab Aero V6's give me the same checksum errors as my XWD did before the beta software was updated.

    Sent in an email with the tune, infolog, and pictures of the ECM.

    Hope to get this one resolved so we can get some regular aero's flashed up too

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmpreza View Post
    Seems there are more checksum issues to be wrangled here. MY08 FWD Saab Aero V6's give me the same checksum errors as my XWD did before the beta software was updated.

    Sent in an email with the tune, infolog, and pictures of the ECM.

    Hope to get this one resolved so we can get some regular aero's flashed up too
    Actually I found out that these files are similar to some of the later fords in that the "checksum" error usually just turns out to be a new definition file that we don't have in our source code so just get treated as such

    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2929

    Its just the weird way these alloytech style pcm's work
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    Actually I found out that these files are similar to some of the later fords in that the "checksum" error usually just turns out to be a new definition file that we don't have in our source code so just get treated as such

    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2929

    Its just the weird way these alloytech style pcm's work
    Yeah, thats kinda what I figured it was again, no problemo!

    As soon as we get a 2009 Aero in, I'll make sure to scan it and float it along too.

  13. #33
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    GM does some weird things, I gotta tell you, they are using a different pcm in these for some reason. I think the X turbo's get an E69/E77 by memory, the aero apparently uses an E55 from the pic's you sent

    Similar to the 08+ CTS's that use an E69 & E77 neither of which we currently support because they use different bootloaders from what we've seen in other vehicles meaning its like starting from scratch again

    Someone tell GM to make it easier for us!
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  14. #34
    so we cant tune the turbo x?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS_SC_Cobalt View Post
    so we cant tune the turbo x?

    The turbo X IS supported & YES you can tune it. I was referring to the 08+CTS's that cannot be tuned currently.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  16. #36
    Tuner in Training lmpreza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    GM does some weird things, I gotta tell you, they are using a different pcm in these for some reason. I think the X turbo's get an E69/E77 by memory, the aero apparently uses an E55 from the pic's you sent

    Similar to the 08+ CTS's that use an E69 & E77 neither of which we currently support because they use different bootloaders from what we've seen in other vehicles meaning its like starting from scratch again

    Someone tell GM to make it easier for us!
    Strangely enough, VTuner was able still to flash the Turbo X stock tune on to his 07 Aero.

  17. #37
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    Yeah I would definitely NOT recommend doing that

    Unless, of course, you have a few spare pcm's lying around if you run into an issue
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  18. #38
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    I take calculated risks for the purpose of advancing our understanding of what can be done on this platform. Most people don't have the stomach for this. The only way to gain understanding is by testing and empirical measurments. By the way, flashing my E55 with the Turbo-X works perfectly; STFT and LTFTs stayed dead on, no knock, AFRs were fine, and it performed like you would expect the Turbo-X to run, much faster than the stock aero tune.

    Edit: To be clear, I am not changing Operating Systems when I say I am flashing my Aero with the Turbo X tuning. I am copying all calibration tables to the Aero OS file and flashing the new tables to the PCM. There is one additional table in Aero calibration that is not present in the Turbo X (Lambda efficiency). You can not directly load the Turbo X operating system to the Aero.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    Yeah I would definitely NOT recommend doing that

    Unless, of course, you have a few spare pcm's lying around if you run into an issue
    Last edited by VTuner; 10-16-2008 at 07:08 AM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTuner View Post
    I take calculated risks for the purpose of advancing our understanding of what can be done on this platform. Most people don't have the stomach for this. The only way to gain understanding is by testing and empirical measurments. By the way, flashing my E55 with the Turbo-X works perfectly; STFT and LTFTs stayed dead on, no knock, AFRs were fine, and it performed like you would expect the Turbo-X to run, much faster than the stock aero tune.

    Edit: To be clear, I am not changing Operating Systems when I say I am flashing my Aero with the Turbo X tuning. I am copying all calibration tables to the Aero OS file and flashing the new tables to the PCM. There is one additional table in Aero calibration that is not present in the Turbo X (Lambda efficiency). You can not directly load the Turbo X operating system to the Aero.
    Ahh ok, yeah copying over differences isn't a big deal for the most part. Its doing operating system changes that I would be weary of.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  20. #40
    Tuner in Training lmpreza's Avatar
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    Any progress on that boost control stuff?

    It's kind of frustrating to see 1.1bar at 3800 and then it gradually drop off to .6~ at 6,000

    Looking through logs theres a "Boost Desired (kPa)" PID that relates almost 100% directly to the actual "Boost (kPa)" PID.

    However like VTuner noted, the Boost DC pid sticks at a certain % all the way to the limiter. Initially it correlates negatively to actual boost, but stops and holds ~87% after peaking.

    Another thing of note, with Boost and Boost Desired, the actual values do not match. At peak boost it reads desired 398 kPa, actual is 207 kPa. At the limiter, boost desired is 272 kPa, and actual is 137 kPa.