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Thread: saab 2.8l v-6 turbo support :)

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmpreza View Post
    Any progress on that boost control stuff?

    It's kind of frustrating to see 1.1bar at 3800 and then it gradually drop off to .6~ at 6,000

    Looking through logs theres a "Boost Desired (kPa)" PID that relates almost 100% directly to the actual "Boost (kPa)" PID.

    However like VTuner noted, the Boost DC pid sticks at a certain % all the way to the limiter. Initially it correlates negatively to actual boost, but stops and holds ~87% after peaking.

    Another thing of note, with Boost and Boost Desired, the actual values do not match. At peak boost it reads desired 398 kPa, actual is 207 kPa. At the limiter, boost desired is 272 kPa, and actual is 137 kPa.
    I've forwarded the info to our head engineer for review and one of us will post up when we figure out more.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTuner View Post
    Yes, P0234 - TC Engine overboost condition. Engine load is showing about 206% absolute when overboost occurs. I was targeting 190% absolute load in the tune so I am not sure why this particular car is over shooting my targets. The customer said at one point they had a 3 bar map sensor (stock is 2.5 bar) but indicated that they removed this prior to tuning. I am reducing the max air load torque to avoid the overboost condition since the engine is hitting the mass air flow targets I want well before overboosting, but the customer would like to run the higher boost level if possible. I suspect that there are several tables governing boost levels allowed at various barometric pressures to avoid over speeding the turbo. This customer is at over 3000ft elevation as well.

    Thanks
    Bill,
    FYI-

    I have an update on the overboost problem one of my customers was having. I had him log some data under 2.23beta so I could see the Boost DC%, desired boost, and absolute load (boost PIDs are still not present in 2.22). With this data it was clear that he was exceeding the desired boost by 12-15% for several seconds before triggering the overboost code. So, it appears that there may not be a pressure limit for triggering overboost like I insinuated, but a time factor for a certain percentage over desired boost. I think you can cross this one off your list, but I still need help with the max maf flow of 240g/sec issue resolved.

    It looks to me like the overboosting customer is having some issues with his boost control solenoid and/or his wastegate diaphram. The issue appears to go away when it is warm out or after his engine is warm on cold days. From the data, the boost solenoid is trying to open further (Boost DC%) but the boost is not dropping. Once the engine is very warm, the max loads under WOT drop and the overboost condition is not triggered.

    Thanks

  3. #43
    Tuner in Training lmpreza's Avatar
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    Any word on an updated beta with support for the rest of the 08 V6 Aeros?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmpreza View Post
    Any word on an updated beta with support for the rest of the 08 V6 Aeros?
    I hope to have the 1 definition file outstanding done before we leave for sema.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  5. #45
    Tuner in Training lmpreza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    I hope to have the 1 definition file outstanding done before we leave for sema.
    Sounds good! Have fun! wish I could go

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTuner View Post
    Bill here is a stock tune to review for the Saab platfrom. I sent an email to Support on Monday (10/6/08) for a couple of other issues that I will bring up here for discussion.

    The Desired air load and max torque air load tables are effective at raising maf air flow up to about 240g/sec, but then I am hitting a limit that appears to be software based. Raising load tables further does not result in additional increased airflow. The boost controller is opening the wastegate to prevent mass air flow above 235g/sec. I have logged this (see logs attached as well) with the stock 2.5 bar map to show how the Boost DC% is working. 95% DC appears to be the closed position and 0% is open (opposite of what I expected, but perhaps this ensures that failure of the boost solenoid results in limited boost). I can install a 3 BAR map and watch the DC% stay at 95% until 245 g/sec.

    I am also looking for a table to adjust when overboost conditions are triggered. This appears to be pressure dependent, not mass airflow dependent.

    A table to adjust engine displacement would also be very useful.

    Several scanner parameters are not working properly in the latest revision. I could create a custom PID for injector %duty cycle in 2.20, but it will not work in 2.22. I can log WB lambda, but can not creat a custom PID for AFR. Again, no apparent reason that the custom formula should not work. All the necessary inputs are in the primary table for you to try for yourself.

    Thanks much, you guys are doing an awesome job!
    Bump for any update.

  7. #47
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    I am looking into Saab tuning and wondering what the standards are on the 2.8t for max load. I want to safely optimize the engine without really killing the lifespan of the engine. I am really looking for general guidelines based around this platform.

    Regards,
    Mike

  8. #48
    Tuner in Training lmpreza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTuner View Post
    Bump for any update.
    Kinda wondering the same thing myself.

    Still have not tried to scan my mom's car Bill, I've been so side-tracked lately.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmpreza View Post
    Kinda wondering the same thing myself.

    Still have not tried to scan my mom's car Bill, I've been so side-tracked lately.
    Any updates on this? The car runs 8PSI stock what is the boost limit while keeping everything reliable?

  10. #50
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    All outstanding defs are done, we'll probably be looking into new tables in the 2nd 1/4 of 09'.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  11. #51
    Tuner in Training lmpreza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    All outstanding defs are done, we'll probably be looking into new tables in the 2nd 1/4 of 09'.
    Hope so! Can't wait really!!

    We're kinda dead in the water for any sort of turbo upgrades until boost control is sorted out, until then we're just... well, stuck!

  12. #52
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    Any progress with the Saab V6 support?
    If anyone has additional info etc , please PM/E-mail or post in this thread.
    Thinking of buying one as they are getting quite affordable here in Sweden.

    Regards Marko
    Last edited by MarkoLBR; 07-03-2009 at 03:05 AM.

  13. #53
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    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  14. #54
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    We are still missing alot. There is a SpeedLimiter inside the VCM and boostcontrol. And most likely different VE maps for different fuels. ME9.6 is bifuel compatible, so alot of maps is missing.
    The speedlimiter work just like in Saab 9-5/OG9-3 with Trionic 7, it takes boost of, shuts the throttle, and finally stepping down the ignition.

  15. #55
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    I have sent two identical files to support, one with speedlimiter at 240km/h and the other at 260km/h. That should do the trick with the speedlimiter, atleast on TurboX.

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    Hmm strange, they send a reply, that it is no difference between the two files????? I have read all the technical information Saab gives out to our workshop, and all that says the speedlimiter is in the PCM. ESP sends one of the rear wheelsensor speeds on P-bus, then the PCM recalculates that signal with help of the programmed wheelsize(ppk VSS pulses per mile?? kilometer more likely) to the correct vehiclespeed, sends that on P-bus to CIM,that passes thru that information on I-bus to MIU, that show us the speed on the instrument. Also CIM uses the speed sent from ECM.

  17. #57
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    bump for anymore support on this?

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    I'm new to tuning and I just took my first set of log data on my Saab. I used the Saab 9-3 aero config from earlier in this thread, and most of it looks great. My one question is, I don't see any data on the WideBand O2 sensor line. Does the Saab come with a wideband o2 sensor standard of do I have to change this out? If I need to change it out, anyone have any recomendations?

    I also noticed in the tables that for O2 sensors, the sensor in Bank1 Position 1 is good, but Band2 Position1 Sensor is always reading 0. Any thoughts on this?

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    up

    Quote Originally Posted by g5 gxp View Post
    bump for anymore support on this?


    up

  20. #60
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    Also me. ^ Help us Bill