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Thread: 96-97 vortec trucks

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    Scanner or editor support? As far as I can tell the 99-00 have nearly as many supported parameters as the early LS1 pcm's.
    Any support is better then nothing, scanner or editor. Although if I got scanner support it would probably make we want editor support even more, because then I would know what I would want to change. I just looked through a 98 vortec file and my LS1 file. You are right Bill, there are a lot of available parameters for the 98-00 vortecs. I guess half of them (like all the dynamic airflow constants), I wouldn't even touch.
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  2. #22
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    I think if anything Keith is trying to make the scanner more flexible & robust and I doubt the editor will support them.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    I think if anything Keith is trying to make the scanner more flexible & robust and I doubt the editor will support them.
    I've always thought that if you guys could make your scanner read the generic SAE parameters and read codes for ALL OBD2 vehicles (like the hand held scanners) you would have a real hit on your hands.
    Phil K.
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  4. #24
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    Should work on Generic mode...not sure why it wouldn't.
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  5. #25
    This is a great question.

    I don't see why Editor and Scanner couldn't be configured to work on 96-97's. <cough>hypert3ch has several options<cough>...........

    Guys, I really would prefer to use my Editor and Scanner on a '96-'97 without having to change pcm's and rewire. Given the cost of a new pcm, having the VIN flashed in and using one of my licenses, I could just get one of "the other guys" programmers and have a lot less headache and probably spend less.

    I vote for adding support for these vehicles.

  6. #26
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    I tried MXScan on a 97 and it would not read at all, even generic stuff.

    The 96-97 is a stange animal, just because the PCM "looks" like a 98-00, that is ALL is shares.....

    Inside the PCM has different memory and processor than the 98-00's. Probably an early version of the protocol and less documented. B&B (Autotap) said they were thinking of finishing work on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Stewart View Post
    This is a great question.

    I don't see why Editor and Scanner couldn't be configured to work on 96-97's. <cough>hypert3ch has several options<cough>...........

    Guys, I really would prefer to use my Editor and Scanner on a '96-'97 without having to change pcm's and rewire. Given the cost of a new pcm, having the VIN flashed in and using one of my licenses, I could just get one of "the other guys" programmers and have a lot less headache and probably spend less.

    I vote for adding support for these vehicles.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by n0dih View Post
    I tried MXScan on a 97 and it would not read at all, even generic stuff.

    The 96-97 is a stange animal, just because the PCM "looks" like a 98-00, that is ALL is shares.....

    Inside the PCM has different memory and processor than the 98-00's. Probably an early version of the protocol and less documented. B&B (Autotap) said they were thinking of finishing work on it.
    I can't imagine that the hardware being different would make that much difference while using the same pinouts on the aldl. Or else the "other guys" would have to use a different interface, and they don't. That clues me in to this being a coding issue.

    I do understand that HPT doesn't have the monster budget that those guys have to offer coding for every single pcm on the market, but I would be very interested to see what you guys could do to look into it.

  8. #28
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    If they were that similar, why does no one have a scan tool with adv pids and a tuning tool for it? TunerCat, Jet DST and Wester's GMT are the only tuners out there that can tune it.

    I suspect the ALDL Timings are different also Something is different. I have a 99 K2500 454 truck, I know it well. I have a friend with a 97, maybe he can chime in if he knows any details....

    Open one up, I have both, they are very different inside, some circuitry is similar, most is quite different, processor and memory are key differences. Pinouts are meaningless, granted, they ARE similar, but not exactly the same.

    Doubtful HPT will get to it anytime soon, if ever, they are quite busy addressing new stuff, and in reality, how many 96-97 customers are out there compared to 08-up?

    Be polite with them, remind them, get your friends with 96-97's to post as well, show them you have desire and give them some idea that there is paying customers waiting. They have to prove the business case to themselves to look at doing it.
    Last edited by Bill@HPTuners; 01-15-2009 at 08:06 AM.

  9. #29
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    Probably the biggest impediments are that the code, flash, internal addresses, and hardware are different on the 96 and 97 PCMs.

    Is there any reason NOT to simply repin and convert over to a 98 PCM? Seems like the more logical approach. HP-Tuners supports them, and I've hacked most of the engine code on one of the 98 vortec PCMs, and Im going to look into the feasibility of using an ELM to try to interface with it. So in addition to support from HP-Tuners, they may also have freeware tuning support like the earlier 80s and 90's ECMs at some point. Seems like a good reason to toss it and spend $50-$75 bucks on a later version of the black box.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimented24x7 View Post
    Is there any reason NOT to simply repin and convert over to a 98 PCM?
    It's a significant amount of work to repin a PCM and if I was going to all that trouble I would use the 411 pcm's from the LS1's. I know if you switch to the 411 PCM there is some sort of grounding issue for something (fuel sender maybe? can't remember). If I was going to significantly mod my truck, I would go that route. But I just want tweak my trans parameters, fuel, timing, and a few other things. If they offer support for 96-97 I'll buy it, but it's not worth the trouble of a 411 swap.
    Phil K.
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  11. #31
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    +1 on going to a 0411.... Things like a flex fuel sensor could be added or other cool things the 0411 supports.... I am thinking of this on my 99 454 K2500 Suburban.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith@HPTuners View Post
    whats the service # for a 96 and 97 PCM? I think we can support them, we just dont' have any PCM's.
    So is there any hope to get HPTuners 2.22 or later to hook up to a 97 Astro ( 4.3 Vortec )


    Thank you.
    Last edited by OneOfMany; 05-21-2009 at 05:26 PM. Reason: 2.0

  13. #33
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    I have messed some with a 97 and no, I would say not, it just doesn't communicate the same. Keith might know more of why, but what I know on the inside is it has a different processor, so memory locations are significantly different.

    I would recommend 1 of 2 things, swap to an 0411 PCM (best choice) or swap to a 98-99 PCM. The latter being simplest and easiest. The 0411 being most ideal as you get a LOT more to work with, including ability to convert to custom OS's (maybe if they work on a V6) and E85 programs (again, if it works on a V6) as well as being a much faster PCM.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by n0dih View Post
    I have messed some with a 97 and no, I would say not, it just doesn't communicate the same. Keith might know more of why, but what I know on the inside is it has a different processor, so memory locations are significantly different.

    I would recommend 1 of 2 things, swap to an 0411 PCM (best choice) or swap to a 98-99 PCM. The latter being simplest and easiest. The 0411 being most ideal as you get a LOT more to work with, including ability to convert to custom OS's (maybe if they work on a V6) and E85 programs (again, if it works on a V6) as well as being a much faster PCM.
    Thanks for pitching in.

    Edit :411 it is than I guess perhaps together with an LS1 It would be easier to get to the ecm with the engine out anyways .

    Well this is for a DD Astro van I just want to be able to do a few things like change DFCO, shift points and Idle RPM, it idles so low that it vibrates and every now and then it set's a 0300. Changed all sensors related , no avail, think it might be age 224000 miles. So a tad more idle should help.
    Other than that it's still sound and does 16 mpg city and 18 hyw @75

    I even thought about swapping in an LS1. Alas I bought one with an GTO around it LOL. So no need for a fast Astro but then again it'l be an even better sleeper than the 04 GTO
    Last edited by OneOfMany; 05-21-2009 at 06:18 PM.

  15. #35
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    Keith, did you ever get the info you needed to see if these can be supported. I tried hooking to my 96 but no dice.

  16. #36
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    Years ago I read about a LT1 swap in a Astro, and they said in a 2WD it fit better than the V6 it replaced. AWD needs a bit more work. Not sure on LSx/Gen III/IV swap.

    I would fix the problems BEFORE you get into a PCM swap, you don't want to mess with compounding the problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneOfMany View Post
    Thanks for pitching in.

    Edit :411 it is than I guess perhaps together with an LS1 It would be easier to get to the ecm with the engine out anyways .

    Well this is for a DD Astro van I just want to be able to do a few things like change DFCO, shift points and Idle RPM, it idles so low that it vibrates and every now and then it set's a 0300. Changed all sensors related , no avail, think it might be age 224000 miles. So a tad more idle should help.
    Other than that it's still sound and does 16 mpg city and 18 hyw @75

    I even thought about swapping in an LS1. Alas I bought one with an GTO around it LOL. So no need for a fast Astro but then again it'l be an even better sleeper than the 04 GTO

  17. #37
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    So to beginn with the 0300 occures after prologed idle and mostly in hot humid weater.

    I changed out Plugs, Ign Wires, Ign Coil, Map sensor, Throttle pos Sensor, Left and right O2 sensor. Phased the Distributor (It was out by ~ 20 deg) Replaced cap and finger)

    Sometimes I think it might be the alcohol they put into the gas nowadays.

  18. #38
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    The imfamous 96-97 PCM






    For those of you with a 98-00 Black Box PCM, this is the comparisson. Note the flash parts are NOT the common 28F800 or 28F400's that we all have come to love. This I believe is a lot of the problems, and the 98-00's have a 28F400 and a different processor.

    These I believe are closer kin to the 96-97 LT1 PCM. And HPT doesn't support them either. Same reasons.

  19. #39
    Hey that is my PCM
    I just packed up the case the other day

  20. #40
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    what a strange coincidence!

    Quote Originally Posted by AJxtcman View Post
    Hey that is my PCM
    I just packed up the case the other day