Wideband Accuracy: Facts & Issues

[boomer]

any word?

[proggod]

Well I got the wideband. The sensor has no serial number, or model number on it. So I have no way to know for sure if it is the NTK sensor. The biggest problem is its reading 1+ point leaner then both the dyno wideband and my Innovate wideband. I am not sure I trust it. I leaned out my engine till the wideband read about 12.8. The old widebands both read about 13.8. It made no more power then when I backed it back down. I guess I should find a dyno with an AFM1000 and do a comparision..

[jackedupcanyon]

Well dadgum.......Did you calibrate it? Think NGK recommends up to 45 minutes in free area.

[boomer]

Well I got the wideband. The sensor has no serial number, or model number on it. So I have no way to know for sure if it is the NTK sensor. The biggest problem is its reading 1+ point leaner then both the dyno wideband and my Innovate wideband. I am not sure I trust it. I leaned out my engine till the wideband read about 12.8. The old widebands both read about 13.8. It made no more power then when I backed it back down. I guess I should find a dyno with an AFM1000 and do a comparision..

what does it look like? u can tell just by looking at it if its the NGK sensor.

[jackedupcanyon]

I also have an email into NGK about it.

[proggod]

Well dadgum.......Did you calibrate it? Think NGK recommends up to 45 minutes in free area.

Yes let it calibrate for about that.


As for what it looks like, it looks similiar to the LC1 sensor. You have a picture of a NTK sensor I can compare.

[boomer]

Yes let it calibrate for about that.


As for what it looks like, it looks similiar to the LC1 sensor. You have a picture of a NTK sensor I can compare.

[jackedupcanyon]

NTK image is on the left. Bosch image is on the right. Looks like the NTK is engraved at the top in both my and Boomer's picture. Proggod, guessing hte sensor you received did not have any engravings on it? Still have not heard back on the email I sent into NGK. Guess you would think it is a holiday or something....

[jackedupcanyon]

Per email response from NGK:

"Right now the AFX only comes with the Bosch sensor. The only way a
retailer would have them with the NTK is if they are opening it and
replacing the NTK with the Bosch. The AFX is compatible with the NTK and
we sell the NTK as the replacement sensor as part number 24302 Hope this
helps, thank you.

PS. In the next few months once current inventory runs out we will be
supplying the AFX with the NTK sensor and the price will most likely
increase $20-30 because of the cost of the NTK."

[proggod]

Per email response from NGK:

"Right now the AFX only comes with the Bosch sensor. The only way a
retailer would have them with the NTK is if they are opening it and
replacing the NTK with the Bosch. The AFX is compatible with the NTK and
we sell the NTK as the replacement sensor as part number 24302 Hope this
helps, thank you.

PS. In the next few months once current inventory runs out we will be
supplying the AFX with the NTK sensor and the price will most likely
increase $20-30 because of the cost of the NTK."

Ya i think it got swindled, its the bosch sensor. I suppose I'll have to buy the sensor separately. Unfortunately my-co driver for a 3 hour endurance race totaled my race car on the 3rd lap he ever had in the car. So I won't be doing alot of testing in that car

[RWTD]

Per email response from NGK:

"Right now the AFX only comes with the Bosch sensor. The only way a
retailer would have them with the NTK is if they are opening it and
replacing the NTK with the Bosch. The AFX is compatible with the NTK and
we sell the NTK as the replacement sensor as part number 24302 Hope this
helps, thank you.

PS. In the next few months once current inventory runs out we will be
supplying the AFX with the NTK sensor and the price will most likely
increase $20-30 because of the cost of the NTK."

Uhhhh, you need to tell NGK to send you an NTK sensor! They have put out deceptive advertising on their product, including the instructional manual, which clearly shows the part # for an NTK sensor! That's BS!

[jackedupcanyon]

Updated email from NGK:

"As far as I know the packaging will stay the same and there will not be any announcements on this.

Last I heard the price will definitely go up around $20-30 because the NTK sensor costs about $100 more than the Bosch so you can see it’ll be a great deal. The price change will be the thing to look for. I talked to our product department about time frame and they determined that we have enough Bosch sensors left to last at least 7-8 more months before they run out and then begin supplying the NTK.

If that’s longer than you guys want to wait I would suggest two options. One is buying the AFX off Ebay, which is the cheapest I have seen it, and then selling the Bosch sensor. You should be able to sell it easily for $50-60. Then buy an NTK sensor which is around $160

Or better yet just use the Bosch sensor until it fails and then when needed upgrade to the NTK. There really isn’t much of an advantage with the NTK unless you run leaded race fuel, which is where the Bosch sensor dies rather quickly compared to the NTK."

[1.8t]

Interesting that an NGK rep is stating the only advantage of the NTK sensor over the Bosch unit is its ability to handle race fuel

[jackedupcanyon]

I know....but not any old rep. This guy is a Technical Support Representative in the Aftermarket Division of NGK Spark Plugs ( U.S.A.), INC.

[proggod]

Interesting that an NGK rep is stating the only advantage of the NTK sensor over the Bosch unit is its ability to handle race fuel

Well leaded, which most of us don't run.. would be nice to have both sensors and check the readings..

[Bluecat]

Sells the AFX with NTK sensor.

http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...roducts_id/582

(Edit: Although this is cheaper than buying seperate, I just noticed that you don't get the Bosch sensor doing it this way. For the $35 price difference, I'd rather buy them seperate and still have the LSU sensor. They do have the NTK sensor as cheap as I've seen it at $147, plus they have sensors with the right plug for my dyno.)

[boomer]

Sells the AFX with NTK sensor.

http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...roducts_id/582

(Edit: Although this is cheaper than buying seperate, I just noticed that you don't get the Bosch sensor doing it this way. For the $35 price difference, I'd rather buy them seperate and still have the LSU sensor. They do have the NTK sensor as cheap as I've seen it at $147, plus they have sensors with the right plug for my dyno.)

Nice! did they just update this? cause i dont think it was always available with the upgraded sensor...

[boomer]

actually, it sounds like the kit would come with BOTH the standard sensor and the NTK sensor.....what do you guys think?


heres what it says at the bottem of the page from the upgraded sensor link ($374.98)

This product contains the following items:
NGK / NTK Wideband O2 Sensor ( UEGO ) for NGK Powerdex AFX, OEM replacement & other wideband systems - NGK PN 24302 » 1 x NGK / NTK Wideband O2 Sensor ( UEGO ) for NGK Powerdex AFX, OEM replacement & other wideband systems - NGK PN 24302
Part # SNSR-01010 $147.99

NGK Powerdex AFX - Air Fuel Ratio Monitor Kit - Wideband O2 - PN 91101 - w/ Standard Sensor » 1 x NGK Powerdex AFX - Air Fuel Ratio Monitor Kit - Wideband O2 - PN 91101 - w/ Standard Sensor
Part # SNSR-01000 $259.97

Cost of separate parts: $407.96
You save $32.98

[boomer]

email i just received from Ballenger Motorsports. i wanted to make sure again because of the way it was worded in my above quote.

Jim,

The AFX wide band kit with the upgraded NTK sensor only comes with the NTK sensor and NOT the Bosch LSU sensor. The kit is normally sold with the Bosch sensor and sold by other vendors with just the Bosch sensor but we had a large number of customers who wanted the controller with the NTK sensor so we decided to offer an option where we remove the Bosch sensor and add the NTK sensor. We just adjusted the pricing on the sensors themselves and correspondingly changed the price of this kit today so you should find a slightly lower cost.

Let me know if you have any questions or comments,

[Rockrz]

So, there's no need for the monitor is there if you have the HP Tuner software...right?