yeah its the same operating system GM's been using for a while, I guess they just edited some tables within it.Originally Posted by davytudope
yeah its the same operating system GM's been using for a while, I guess they just edited some tables within it.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
Though it seems like most of the tables they edited we cant see, is unlocking the rest of the tables being worked on currently or is it on hold again?
Last edited by shabby; 01-10-2009 at 10:20 AM.
Not so much the airbox, more the "snorkel" going to the turbo. My GT30R kit for the CBSS re-uses the airbox and upper elbow, relacing the bottleneck below it with 3" neoprene flexhose (like in jegs for brakes) So far it's flowed 40lbs/min at only 20psi.
Me love boost long time.
Hopefully having them side by side will help "roadmap" the pertinent tables within.
Me love boost long time.
It really isn't unfortunately.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
If we threw in 1000 more tables but had no axis labels or units of measure lables and no explanation of what each table does would this help you? Seriously adding tables in blindly would be the worst thing we could do.
If you have a specific table request please post it in the feature request section, but posts like "we need more parameters to toy with" won't go far because if we don't know specifically what you need we don't know what specifically to look for.
Also as you can see http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6619 there are dozens of other requests that have already been put in previously that will likely be added before we look further into the bosch pcm code.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
I definitely appreciate the work you guys have put into our relatively small market thus far, and I bought HPT for myself for Christmas for that exact reason (BTW, just the tuning I've done right now has given me a whole new car).
I think the major things people are looking for is a way around 255kpa (we still have not see anyone go higher with the new OS), the ability to add no-lift shift, and information on the learn down code. I personally don't believe the learn down code has any pertinent information for us, but others seem to show a lot of interest in it.
Again, thanks for the work you guys have put into it thus far
Chris had mentioned in another thread he's not sure of a way around the 255kpa limit.
No lift shift, please make a post in the feature request section and I'll add it to the main thread.
Learn down, again Chris commented on this and from what we have seen there isn't anything learning back so there very well may not be any thing to add there.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
Where the hell is Chris White in all this? He used to hack the crap out of PCMs left and right and give up everything.
RSG Offroad
Jeeps. Jeeps. And more Jeeps. Oh and Jeeps too.
I don't think he's much into the bosch code on the hex side of things. There aren't many that are in actuality.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
From another forum Bill. The response is directly from GM.
: Originally Posted by WaGoN MOnger View Post
Couple questions...
Teh stock ecu adjusts boost depending on certain conditions to keep the hp and torque at 260. Does this ecu do the same? Is there a set boost level?
Also since the ecu does that, will bolt ons increase hp without the ecu compinsating fo the extra air flow etc..?
Will there be other upgrade kits like stage 2? Intake ,turbo back exhaust?
Thank you!
You are correct on the production calibration. The Power Upgrade basically turns off the learn down feature and is tuned to protect the turbo from overspeed. Therefore, if you add something to make the engine breath better this kit will keep the horse power gains that part made. There is no specific set boost level."
Ok, then my question to you is this, has anyone seen a specific instance where they dynoed at 260, then made 300hp and then a week later was back dynoing 260 without changing the tune? As far as I know nobody has reported this which is why we haven't looked into it.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
A better explanation Bill.
"The stock production calibration is a sophisticated torque-based control system. It is constantly looking at all of the inputs - air temperature and pressure, charge air cooler efficiency, estimating density of intake air, and where the settings are for all the systems relative to a spark map to ensure the engine is protected for knock and detonation. It also estimates turbine speed with some very accurate modeling for given output to protect the turbo unit from overstress.
The goal of all of this control is to provide very consistent 260 ft lb/260 hp for all cars. If you make a change to the system such as improving the exhaust efficiency, then the control system will relearn with each key cycle that it is overproducing torque, and will "learn down" the torque back to stock level. If you do a back-to-back change that a dynomometer shows a gain of 15 ft-lbs, in a handful of key cylcles, long after you have left your dyno shop, the engine will learn back down to 260 ft-lbs. If you encounter a situation, such as a very hot day or you use 87 octane fuel, which requires an immediate spark retard to protect the motor, the good news is that the engine will "learn up" back to stock torque. But only back up to stock torque.
That is how the production system works.
In simple terms, the Performance Upgrade Kit turns off the learn down portion. You still have all of the protection features for the engine, such asg spark knock protection, turbine overspeed, or if you play with the wastegate link (which will, incidentally, probably set a boost fault).
So, essentially the PUpgrade you can think of as limited by turbine speed to protect the turbo from overstress and failure. At max turbine speed, whatever you can do to increase torque will be effective at producing more torque and power at a given RPM. This boils down to getting more molecules of air into and out of the engine. You can improve intake system efficiency by trying to make it less restrictive, including all of the flow path from fresh air intack to the turbo compressor intake, through the compressor outlet, through the charge air cooler (which also can be improved both through flow efficiency and cooling efficiency), into the intake manifold and through the cylinder head port and even intake valve openings. The easiest place to start is the air cleaner/intake pipes up to the turbo, BUT you must be careful when you start changing these things, as it is easy to create small areas of turbulence in the intake system which cause erratic readings on the MAP and MAF sensors and will set intake rationality codes.
The same thing applies to the exhaust side, from the exhaust valves. Legally, the catalytic converter must stay in place for the compliance to be legally valid. Improvements and lower restrictive exhaust in the cat-back section, such as what is available through GM Performance Parts should also be effective.
With the PUpgrade, these gains will not "learn out" like they do in the production calibration."
Not to my knowledge but I don't have access to a a dyno. Just a butt dyrno and while the tune I have never seems to go back to the old tune levels the ol' butt dyno seems to say it loses a bit.
After I remove the tune for example to bring the car to the dealer, putting the tune back in always brings back a fresh rush of performance.
Nope, not scientific at all but my perception.
Chris mentioned he was looking into the overboost code and boost solenoid duty cycle couple months ago, a status update from Chris would suffice.
Its still on his to do list as well as many other things, It will probably be something we get to look at in the 2nd quarter of the year but not before then.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
LOL I'm here, reading much like you guysThe LNF/Bosch stuff is considerably different than the stuff I'm used to dealing with. I've got binaries from these controllers and have found a few things but nothing substantial. I'm personally VERY interested in the E69-4 used in the LLT as I own one of those, I'm also looking at getting a Cobalt SS to screw around with as well. My hope is that someone gets the E69-4 read/write completed soon so maybe we can find some paralells between the LNF and LLT codes (doubtful but I'm all for trying.
Bosch stuff is quite a bit different even from the OEM standpoint, its developed and calibrated almost entirely by Bosch unlike the normal GM stuff thats done in house so finding people with a working knowledge of it is quite difficult.
I'm just as anxious as you guys are to see more support for these things but I can certainly see why its a slow go, its WIERD to put it mildly.
Chris White
www.GTOShiftLight.com
2006 GTO Spice Red A4
2012 Jeep SRT8
2013 SRX Custom IPC/BCM/CUE
2013 XTS4 Custom IPC/BCM/CUE Auto High Beams
2013 Volt Custom IPC/BCM/Radio
I think the "learn down" side of things refers to just bolting on an exhaust or better intercooler or something. Without a tune, I'm sure it will take itself back to factory power levels. There are many PCMs that do this. But the second we change the tables to TELL it to make more power, there is no more "learn down" to the 260hp, it's "down" to the level we have bumped it "up" to. Make sense? I think this is what GM means by eliminating their "learn down" code.
RSG Offroad
Jeeps. Jeeps. And more Jeeps. Oh and Jeeps too.
The thing is there are several E69 equipped vehicles we CAN read & write to, but there are others that we can't. At this point we aren't sure why and have just recently(ie this week) are sourcing a pcm from one of the vehicles we aren't able to read from to try and figure out why.LOL I'm here, reading much like you guys
Bosch stuff is quite a bit different even from the OEM standpoint, its developed and calibrated almost entirely by Bosch unlike the normal GM stuff thats done in house so finding people with a working knowledge of it is quite difficult.
I'm just as anxious as you guys are to see more support for these things but I can certainly see why its a slow go, its WIERD to put it mildly.
For instance, the 08+ cobalt SS/TC uses the E69 pcm and we support them/read/write without issue.
But then the 08+ Cadillac CTS 3.6 DI motor uses both the E69 and E77 pcm depending on what version of engine it uses and for some reason we currently cannot read them.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
The E77 is considerably different physically (shorter, at least the one I've seen
The E69-4 used in the LLT (3.6L and 3.0L DI (soon)) is quite a bit different from the regular E69 used on the LNF according to a few release engineers. I'll see if I cant get a list of specifics, or at least more to go on.
I know the current release version wont go past the vin read portion otherwise i'd try to read it here and see whats happening, unless there is a beta that will allow it to try?
Chris White
www.GTOShiftLight.com
2006 GTO Spice Red A4
2012 Jeep SRT8
2013 SRX Custom IPC/BCM/CUE
2013 XTS4 Custom IPC/BCM/CUE Auto High Beams
2013 Volt Custom IPC/BCM/Radio
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