Disable Theft Deterrent System???

[Rockrz]

Well, after driving mine a while with VATS disable I can say for sure....
It doesn't actually disable anything!

After so many starts, my truck is still going into that mode where
I have to wait 10 minutes so I can start it up again.

My truck was repossessed from it's previous owner so
they didn't have the original keys and I think I'm going
to need to make the system "re-learn" so I can hopefully
get this resolved once and for all.

Anybody know the exact instructions to make the
Disable Theft Deterrent System "re-learn"?

(truck specs listed below...)

[camaro1]

Well, after driving mine a while with VATS disable I can say for sure....
It doesn't actually disable anything!

After so many starts, my truck is still going into that mode where
I have to wait 10 minutes so I can start it up again.

My truck was repossessed from it's previous owner so
they didn't have the original keys and I think I'm going
to need to make the system "re-learn" so I can hopefully
get this resolved once and for all.

Anybody know the exact instructions to make the
Disable Theft Deterrent System "re-learn"?

(truck specs listed below...)

you only disabled the vats in the pcm,, the bcm controls the security system,, if you disable the vats in the pcm you will still need to re-wire the power from the ign switch to the starter solenoid to totally eliminate the vats/security system

[Rockrz]

you only disabled the vats in the pcm,, the bcm controls the security system,, if you disable the vats in the pcm you will still need to re-wire the power from the ign switch to the starter solenoid to totally eliminate the vats/security system

Before I purchased this product I posted this question on the board here
and one of the HP Tuners employees specifically said this software would
disable Disable Theft Deterrent System, which isn't true.

Anybody know the exact instructions to make the
Disable Theft Deterrent System "re-learn"?

[Bill@HPTuners]

Before I purchased this product I posted this question on the board here
and one of the HP Tuners employees specifically said this software would
disable Disable Theft Deterrent System, which isn't true.

Anybody know the exact instructions to make the
Disable Theft Deterrent System "re-learn"?

As stated it disables the PCM's part of the system, our software cannot account for modules we cannot reprogram.

-Bill

[Rockrz]

That is something that you guys should have told me when I asked that
question as it is very important to know.

Don't you think that would have been an important piece of information
since HP Tunders software cannot access the BCM?

Anybody know the exact instructions to make the
Disable Theft Deterrent System "re-learn"?

[Bill@HPTuners]

Every vehicle & situation is different, our software can only disable items in modules we tune ie pcm/tcm. We've never claimed to be able to reprogram other modules so if its a different module that is creating an issue we cannot control that.

[Rockrz]

Anybody know the exact instructions to make the
Disable Theft Deterrent System "re-learn"?

This will hopefully solve this issue, maybe

[camaro1]

turn the key to run for 10 min, then off and back to the run position for 10 min, then off and back to the run position for another 10 min, then off, then start the vehicle, if that doesnt work you will need a tech 2 with access to TIS to do the 10 min re-learn

you already turned it off in the pcm,, why not just wire it so the bcm doesnt control the cranking/starting and be done

[camaro1]

i just looked at a wiring diagram and the pass lock system on your truck only involves the bcm sending the correct fuel enable code to the pcm and does not effect the cranking of the vehicle so you should be able to re-flash the pcm with the vats disabled and the vehicle should start

when you say the security system does not allow you to start the vehicle do you mean the engine cranks and no start or the engine doesnt crank?

[EC_Tune]

Proper procedure is to use the Flash --> Relink VATS.
And here's how it goes:
Try to start the car. It should start & stall.
Leave the key in the run postion and click on the Flash menu and select Relink VATS.
Click on Relink.
Wait 10 minutes.
The SECURITY light should go off after 10 minutes.
Turn the key off and remove from the ignition.
Wait 10 seconds.
Start the car.

Done...

[Rockrz]

i just looked at a wiring diagram and the pass lock system on your truck only involves the bcm sending the correct fuel enable code to the pcm and does not effect the cranking of the vehicle so you should be able to re-flash the pcm with the vats disabled and the vehicle should start

when you say the security system does not allow you to start the vehicle do you mean the engine cranks and no start or the engine doesnt crank?

When the event happens, the ignition is dead...it has power to the rest
of the truck, but the starter doesn't have power.

Not wild about "re-wiring" since this should be resolved by re-learning.

I think I found instructions at
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/...t-relearn.html
So, I'll try this when I get time...

[Rockrz]

Anybody know the exact instructions to make the
Disable Theft Deterrent System "re-learn"?

[Rockrz]

Proper procedure is to use the Flash --> Relink VATS.
And here's how it goes:
Try to start the car. It should start & stall.
Leave the key in the run postion and click on the Flash menu and select Relink VATS.
Click on Relink.
Wait 10 minutes.
The SECURITY light should go off after 10 minutes.
Turn the key off and remove from the ignition.
Wait 10 seconds.
Start the car.

Done...

OK, so which is the right way???

What you just posted using the HP Tuners software,

or using this,

1. Turn ON the ignition leaving the engine OFF for 11 minutes.
2. Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
3. Turn ON the ignition leaving the engine OFF for 11 minutes.
4. Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
5. Turn ON the ignition leaving the engine OFF for 11 minutes or until DTC P1630 sets.
6. Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
7. Turn ON the ignition leaving the engine OFF and wait 30 seconds.
8. Attempt to start the engine. If the engine does not start, check for codes.


Found in this thread:
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22223


If it's true that HP Tuners software cannot talk to the BCM, how can
it possibly re-set VATS???

[Rockrz]

Proper procedure is to use the Flash --> Relink VATS.
And here's how it goes:
Try to start the car. It should start & stall.
Leave the key in the run postion and click on the Flash menu and select Relink VATS.
Click on Relink.
Wait 10 minutes.
The SECURITY light should go off after 10 minutes.
Turn the key off and remove from the ignition.
Wait 10 seconds.
Start the car.

Done...

OK, so I went out to my truck to do what you are talking about
and things didn't go as you had described

I plugged in, opened HP Tuners software, left the key in the run
postion and clicked on the Flash menu and selected Relink VATS.

Within just a few seconds the software verified my VIN and
then said "Relink Sucessful" and the security light on the dash
was off.

I guess, since I'm guessing about all this anyway (trial & error)
I'll drive the truck around for a while and see if it continues not
allowing me to start it for 10 minutes at a time after so many starts.

If it does this again, then I'll try what was described in the
thread at http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22223

[edcmat-l1]

Those "learn" cycles are for when you replace the key. It needs to learn a new key code. It has nothing to do with learning "out" an intermittent problem. Your most likely cause is a key with a worn out resistor. Or the key tumbler has an intermittent bad connection. They have very thin wires that tend to start to break off the tumbler.

Find someone in your area with a "VATS SYSTEM INTERROGATOR". It's a Kent Moore tool. I have one. Most dealers have them. You put the key in the interrogator, and it will tell you the key code. Then have them wiggle the key around and see if it makes the key code digits flash. If it does, the key is worn out. If the code digits don't flash, the key is most likely OK, and it's a problem with the tumbler/harness. I've replaced dozens of them. Not too bad of a job.

You can also hook up the interrogator to the harness, and effectively bypass the tumbler and key, by setting the interrogator code to the key code, and cranking the key. The interrogator "tells" the BCM what the code is, basically doing the key and tumblers job. Yours being an intermittent problem makes it harder to catch and diagnose using this method. When they come in as a no start, this tool makes it real easy to figure out.

[Rockrz]

My key, according to the local GM dealer, is just a regular
key and has no electronics embedded in it at all.

When I first got the truck, all I got was a simple metal
key with no plastic around it, and nothing embedded on it.

I went to the dealer to obtain the remote to lock and un-lock
my doors without having to use the key and I ask them if my
key had any electronics embedded in it and they said it did not.

I actually bought two new keys from them that had the
thick black plastic around it and they assured me that
these weren't embedded with any electronics like many
other GM vehicles are.

So, what you are talking about wouldn't apply to my
2003 Chevrolet S10 Pickup.

The truck was a repo, so they probably "stole" it from
the previous loan holder causing the theft deterrent
system to be upset. Re-learning should fix it without
having to replace a bunch of parts.

Of course, the dealer was licking their chops saying
I needed to change some parts and it would cost
a couples hours of labor to verify that I needed to
spend hundreds of dollars on this situation.

I'm going to obviously exhaust all options before
considering allowing those guys to rape my pocketbook
which is what dealers do best (change parts, then
run diagnostics after they've made a bunch of money
for stuff you may or may not need...)

[edcmat-l1]

I'll look it up in ALLDATA later today and post back.

[edcmat-l1]

Straight out of ALLDATA. Hope this helps some.


VEHICLE THEFT DETERRENT (VTD) DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION

PASSLOCK(TM) SYSTEM
The theft deterrent system has been incorporated into the body control module (BCM). The theft deterrent is provided in order to prevent the vehicle operation if the correct key is not used in order to start the vehicle. The ignition key turns the lock cylinder. The cylinder rotation produces an analog voltage code in the Passlock(tm) sensor. This voltage code is received by the BCM. The BCM compares the voltage code to the previously learned voltage code. If the codes match, a class 2 message is sent from the BCM to the powertrain control module (PCM)/vehicle control module (VCM). The message enables the fuel injectors.

The design of the Passlock(tm) system is to prevent vehicle theft by disabling the engine unless the ignition lock cylinder rotates properly by engaging the correct ignition key. The system is similar in concept to the passkey system. However, the Passlock(tm) system eliminates the need for a key mounted resistor pellet. The components of the Passlock(tm) system are as follows:

* The ignition lock cylinder
* The ignition switch
* The Passlock(tm) sensor
* The body control module (BCM)
* The security telltale
* The vehicle/powertrain control module (VCM/PCM)

Ignition Lock Cylinder and Housing
The ignition lock cylinder is located at the upper right side of the steering column. The Passlock(tm) sensor is in the steering column. The Passlock(tm) sensor is separate from the key and lock cylinder. The key and the lock cylinder work together in order to determine if the proper ignition key was used to start the vehicle.

In the event of an open Class 2 serial data line between the BCM and the VCM/PCM, the vehicle will become fail-enabled if the VCM/PCM has already received the password from the BCM for that ignition cycle (the engine is running). In this event, the following conditions occur:

* The security telltale will be ON continuously.
* The VCM/PCM will become fail-enabled for future ignition cycles.

If a failure in the Class 2 serial data line occurs before the ignition cycle, when the VCM/PCM is not fail-enabled, the following conditions occur:

* The VCM/PCM will never receive a valid password in order to enable the fuel injectors.
* The vehicle will not start.

Ignition Switch
The lock cylinder and the visible key insert portion of the ignition switch are located at the upper right side of the steering column. The electrical switching portion of the assembly is separate from the key and lock cylinder. The electrical switch portion is hidden inside the steering column. The electrical switch portion and the key and lock cylinder synchronize and work in conjunction through the action of the mechanical assembly between the 2 parts.

Passlock(tm) Sensor
The Passlock(tm) sensor is inside the upper right side of the steering column. The Passlock(tm) sensor contains 2 hall effect sensors. The tamper hall effect sensor is on the top. The security hall effect sensor is under the tamper hall effect sensor. Both of the hall effect sensors monitor the magnet of the lock cylinder through an opening. The tamper hall effect sensor is physically placed on top of the security hall effect sensor. This arrangement enables the tamper hall effect sensor to engage first if an intruder attempts to bypass the Passlock(tm) sensor by placing a large magnet around that area of the steering column. There is a tamper resistor inside the Passlock(tm) sensor in order to help prevent tamper to the system. Passlock(tm) equipped vehicles have a selection of 10 different security resistors ranging from 0.5K ohms up to 13.6K ohms . Installing one of the security resistors inside the Passlock(tm) sensor will generate a unique Passlock(tm) code. All 10 combinations of the Passlock(tm) sensor have the same part number. However, you cannot simply replace the Passlock(tm) sensor and expect the system to operate properly. Always start by performing the Diagnostic System Check first and following the instructions.

Body Control Module
The body control module (BCM) contains the theft deterrent system logic. The BCM reads the Passlock(tm) data from the Passlock(tm) sensor. If the Passlock(tm) data is correct, the BCM will pass theft. The BCM will then transmit the code password to the VCM/PCM.

During the tamper mode the vehicle may start. The vehicle will then stall. If the BCM receives the wrong Passlock(tm) data, the VTD will immediately go into the tamper mode. The tamper mode will lock-out the vehicle fuel injectors for 10 minutes . The SECURITY indicator will flash while the VTD is in the tamper mode.

If the Passlock(tm) sensor sends a correct password to the BCM when the ignition is in the ON position, the BCM will send a fuel enable signal to the VCM/PCM.

The VCM/PCM will not disable the fuel due to any BCM message for the remainder of the ignition cycle.

Security Telltale
The SECURITY telltale appears on the message center inside the instrument cluster. If the SECURITY telltale flashes or if the SECURITY telltale lights continuously during the vehicle operation, refer to the system diagnosis.

Vehicle/Powertrain Control Module
The VCM/PCM communicates with the BCM over the Class 2 serial data line. When the BCM determines a no start condition, it sends a Class 2 serial data password to the VCM/PCM in order to disable the fuel injection system. If the BCM receives the expected voltage from the Passlock(tm) sensor, the BCM sends a class 2 serial data password to the VCM/PCM in order to enable the fuel injection system. The VCM/PCM then allows the vehicle to start correctly. If the Class 2 serial data password from the BCM to the VCM/PCM is not within the Vehicle Security Status Message, the fuel injectors will shut OFF during a start attempt. The SECURITY telltale will be illuminated for 10 minutes . If the VCM/PCM does not receive the same password from the BCM as the last learned one, the vehicle will start and then stalls due to the Fuel Lockout.

FUEL LOCKOUT CYCLE
The Passlock(tm) system has a lockout cycle of approximately 10 minutes . Once the vehicle is in the lockout cycle, the vehicle remains in the lockout cycle for 10 minutes , even if the ignition switch is turned from the RUN position to the OFF position.

The Passlock(tm) system uses the lockout cycle in order to synchronize all of the Passlock(tm) components when any Passlock(tm) related part is changed. The Passlock(tm) system requires 3 consecutive lockout cycles in order to complete the 30 minute learn procedure for a changed component.

CHANGING THE PASSLOCK(TM) COMPONENTS
The design of the Passlock(tm) system is to prevent theft even if the various theft deterrent parts change. The parts that can no longer be changed without the possibility of going into a tamper mode are:

* The Passlock(tm) sensor
* The BCM
* The VCM/PCM

If you replace any of these parts the vehicle may start and stall for 10 minutes . This is the long tamper mode. If this occurs, the system must go through a long tamper mode cycle. During this time the SECURITY telltale will be flashing for the full 10 minutes and the DTC B3031 will be set. The BCM and the VCM/PCM require the full 10 minutes in order to complete a learn cycle. The ignition switch must remain in the RUN position until the SECURITY telltale stops flashing. You will need to repeat the cycle if the ignition switch does not remain in the RUN position. When replacing any of the above parts it is recommended to perform the Programming Theft Deterrent System Components procedure.

The design of the Passlock(tm) system is to prevent the vehicle operation if the proper ignition key is not used in order to start the vehicle. The mechanical key, in normal operation, will turn the ignition lock cylinder. The Passlock(tm) sensor monitoring the position of the lock cylinder will relay the Passlock(tm) data to the body control module (BCM). The BCM will determine the validity of the Passlock(tm) data. The BCM will send a password to the vehicle/powertrain control module (VCM/PCM). When the VCM/PCM receives the correct password the VCM/PCM allows the fuel injectors to operate normally. The Passlock(tm) system requires the VCM/PCM and the BCM to communicate the various functions in order to operate. These functions transmit over the class 2 serial data line. For an explanation of the class 2 serial data description and operation refer to Data Link Communications Description and Operation in Data Link Communications.

[Rockrz]

Yes, thanks. This is very helpful in understanding all the components
that work together that make up the Theft Deterrent System

the Passlock(tm) system eliminates the need for a key mounted resistor pellet.

Apparently, mine is the passlock system that does not have the
key mounted resistor

But, mine never stalls. When mine goes into it's 10 minute intermissions
you can turn the key and the engine will not turn over. I have all power
(lights, radio, horn, pwr locks, etc) but when you turn the key, nothing
happens at all.

I've used HP Tuners software to "Relink VATS"

Does this make the ECM talk to the BCM to tell
it, "Hey man, what's the password?"

Is this what it means to Relink VATS?

It's only been yesterday since I've dodne this and it's started
everytime, but I guess I need to see it start everytime for
a couple of months before believing it has re-learned the password.

If it happens again, then I'll try the manual relearn process
to see if that takes care of it. If it does it again after that,
I guess it's off to the dealer...

I'm hoping that since my truck was a repo, maybe they
upset the system somehow when they stole the truck,
and re-learning will hopefully get things back on track.

Is this a reasonable assumption?
I guess time will tell one way or the other.

[edcmat-l1]

Unfortunately because it so intermittent it will be very difficult to diagnose. Also because it's a no crank problem, it makes it even more difficult because by reading the theory and operation of the system, it should not cause this.

I would start by pulling the wiring diagrams fro the starting system, and see what could possibly interrupt that.