About that GM 2.2 Ecotec reflash.?.?

[PDXGTP]

Hello,
I tune some of the L4's in the Phoenix area and one of the locals is planning to bolt on a M62 and a very agressive discussion broke out in my driveway last Saturday night.
First off keep in mind, I have already done a complete tune on a 98 Grand AM, 2.4 with a small eaton blower, smaller then a M62 I know that for sure and was able to tune the car very well with its NA 1 bar program, the car runs fine, it runs great actually.
The owner of the grand am is always pinging on the GM reflash but appearently if it gets one of those reflash tunes then HPT hasen't cracked it and has no plans to do so. I'm fine with that and it seems to me that the owner should be fine with it too.
Anyway...
A new club member comes to mod day at my house last Saturday and has a beautiful 2004 Sunfire 2.2 manual etc... he already has the new shinny blower, he only needs a few parts like pulleys etc and he's going to bolt that sucker on. I told him that I'd be happy to tune his car.
Now the guy that believes in the GM reflash keeps suggesting that he go that route.
I suggest that he get a spare PCM and have the spare flashed and we tune his stock PCM and compare the difference.

So my question is.
1. Why would it be worth while for this guy to pay GM for a reflash? when he can't tune it?
2. Why or what would be a good reason to do the fake 2 bar tune?
I already prepared a file for the Grand Am owner based off some post he forwarded me and the only bene to the fake 2 bar is timing resolution, so what... the car runs great.

Sorry for the nonsense post but I'd just like to know.. is it worth it to get a GM reflash that you cannot tune?

Thanks,

[evofire]

Hey Thomas, hello everyone!

I am Chris, the owner of the sunfire mentioned in this post. Here is a basic list of performance mods I have, and what I will have with the M62 bolted on.

Currently on the car is the following...

AEM/NOPI CIA
LSJ Pacesetter header
2.25 complete exhaust
MagnaFlow Hi Flow Cat

That is it. Just basic bolt ons.

With the GMPP kit on, I plan on using the 36 lb injectors supplied with the the kit, and running the 2.9 inch pulley. I will also have an alky/water kit bolted on, as well as the SVT cobra heat exchanger, and the SVT pump as well.

Now the other person (the grand am owner) is a great friend of mine, and swears that I will blow up the car if I try to use the GMPP tune with these mods, and says I need an HPTune. Well I have full confidence that the GMPP tune will work fine with these mods. The gentleman I bought the kit from ran it with all the same mods (same exact parts actually). The header aswell as all parts of the GMPP kit came off of his old car. I am only replaceing worn and damaged parts (belts, injectors, bypass valve actuator).

With that said, I know that an HPtune can and will work with the kit, as several people have done it, but I don't fell it is 100% needed. Thomas, i have full faith in you that you can do it, and am very willing to try it and get it done, becuase after all as you said, the HPtune can be changed, the GMPP tune cant be.

Now my questions with the HPTune, is once it is tuned by Thomas, could I change/adjust the tune with my own unit, or does it all have to be done with Thomas' hardware?

[blackeco]

OP :
Fake 2 Bar gives you more timing resolution in boost. Also allows you to vary fuel in boost via the IPW Multiplier. This is arguably only beneficial in high boost applications. Also you lose low end resolution/driveablity at the cost of gaining that boost resolution.

I don't know why anyone would want to run the reflash unless they had a stock kit and were trying to pass emissions. Why risk it with mods?

Also what is the point of performance mods if you are going to run the sh$#@ty reflash which is going to make worse numbers with the mods than a good 1 bar tune would without them?!?

Evofire : You will have to license your VCM on both cables if you both want to be able to tune with your own hardware. If you don't want to purchase the credits I suggest you let your tuner use your hardware/cable.

[wftb]

get your own HP tuners mpvi pro , let your friend use it to tune and then you can make any changes you want later at any time .just dont let him lock the tune .i have a 2.2 turbo with snow water meth,6:1 vortech fmu , 32 lb injectors .changed my injector constant and lowered my PE enable rpm and lowered the PE vs temp table .timing is stock .i run 10.75 psi of boost and get no KR .the water meth takes care of that , make sure you get a progressive kit .thats the other advantage with your own HP setup, you can run scans anytime you want and see exactly where you are at .you are stuck in one place with the gm reflash .the only advantage is it is free with your kit .

[evofire]

WTFB, If you used meth to "fix" the timing issue with an hptune, wouldn't it do the same with the GM flash?

An FMU would be able to help me with the fuel issue, and meth would help with the KR am I right? So why would the GM flash NOT work?

I am not trying to talk myself into the GM flash. I KNOW 100% that it will work with what I am doing, I just want to know others opinions. I will still get it tuned by Thomas, becuase odds are we (read as he) will be able to do better then the flash. But for having a h/e setup and the smaller pulley, why would the GM flash NOT work.

[imphat0260]

But for having a h/e setup and the smaller pulley, why would the GM flash NOT work.

Because the GM reflash was designed specifically for the kit only(IE: no other mods)

[PDXGTP]

Chris,
It will work but its not the best choice for you...
looks to me that Blackeco hit the nail on the head, that GM reflash is fine & dandy for the perfect collection of stock parts but that's it. if you plan on modding it pointless.
I can't see any logic in sacraficing low rpm drivability for the few moments you step into the gas in boosted conditions. and again, its mostly timing. the PE mode AF multiplier is already in your program, its not like you get that with the reflash unless the reflash has a fine resolution compared to the 10 data points in the existing tune/program.

From what I see in Chris's personality, this dude isn't going to be happy with generic mods, he's going to play with his car and enjoy it... as he should.

Chris, I didn't know you had HPTuners. did you get the standard interface? or did you get the MPVI pro? I'd be completely happy to coach you in tuning your car, I don't keep any secrets and I don't lock pcm's that's just not right. i don't even charge for tuning, that's what the club is about. I'm just in it for the brain food.

[evofire]

OK well Like I said, I am going to have it tuned via HPT, and I will also run the GM Reflash so I can drive it daily until the tune is worked out.

Thomas I don't have HPTuners. I guess I just worded that question wrong.

[evofire]

Back from the dead. I will be using the Gm flash, while Thomas and I work on an HPT tune. Is there anyway anyone can send us a copy of a tune using a 2.5 tmap sensor?

[imphat0260]

Back from the dead. I will be using the Gm flash, while Thomas and I work on an HPT tune. Is there anyway anyone can send us a copy of a tune using a 2.5 tmap sensor?

So you want a handout?

[Leafy]

There's a fake 2.5 bar tune on the tune respository, you just need to download it (you have to have a licened copy of hptuners to do this). I'm working on one right now myself, BUT I'm on 60 lb injecters and stock exhaust.

And the other issue in thsi thread is, the owned of the car with the 2.4 ld9 engine (no ecotec) can use a tuneable gm 2 bar reflash to get a much better tune than he has now, while us 2.2 eco guys are kind of left tuning with alpha-n and it sucks.

[evofire]

Well the tuning should begin shortly. If i can get ahold of Thomas and schedule a weekend that it.