Upshift not happening as expected

[Russ K]

I WISH THERE WAS A WAY TO GET RID OF THE TIMING PULL ON THE AUTO AND SPORT DOWNSHIFTS. WHEN YOU HIT IT NOW IT DROPS INTO THE GEAR BUT YOU CAN FEEL IT RAMP UP INTO THE POWERBAND INSTEAD OF JUST HITTING IT AND GOING.

ANY SUGGESTIONS ON THAT PART RUSS?

Post your latest & stock tune, and I'll take a look at them for you.

Russ Kemp

[04blackgmc]

At first I changed them higher, then lower, no gains that I could feel, so I leave them stock.

I would think the description of a preset, means just so the trans will initially function until the adaptive learning does it's job.

Russ Kemp

how do you feel about oncoming pressure and offgoing pressure???
like i said there is alot of difference between the g8gt g8GXP and a 08 vette..

[04blackgmc]

ok here is 2 tunes im gonna try tonight one is stock g8GT XYZ pressure tables with 30PSI added to all..with GXP oncoming/offgoing pressure

other is stock GXP XYZ with 20 PSI added with GXP oncoming and offgoing

gonna mess a little with the volume gonna try adding 2..

my car did not like these kept getting a 3-4 cruising flare shift..


what EXACTLY causes flare....??????

[RonC]

I WISH THERE WAS A WAY TO GET RID OF THE TIMING PULL ON THE AUTO AND SPORT DOWNSHIFTS. WHEN YOU HIT IT NOW IT DROPS INTO THE GEAR BUT YOU CAN FEEL IT RAMP UP INTO THE POWERBAND INSTEAD OF JUST HITTING IT AND GOING.



ANY SUGGESTIONS ON THAT PART RUSS?

I will offer a suggestion for a workaround way of reducing timing pulled on downshifts that has worked for me using "another programmer". I also had turned off all TQ Mgt and it still pulled downshift timing on my 2010 L99 Camaro.

It has a table in the ECM spark control section called "Maximinum Spark Retard" and you probably have a table like this. It limits the max spark the ECM can pull due to knock, TQ reduction, etc. I found it also limits the spark retard on downshifts to the pre set #s in the table. It is a ECT vs spark degrees table and was set at -20 deg. I have set mine to 10 deg and it doesn't go below that on my logs. You can fine tune the amount of TQ Reduction using it. Hope this helps.

I have followed you guys and have gained a lot of usefull info to help me tune my car. Even though I dont have all your tables, I still have managed to work up a tune that does well.

Thanks for all your doing to inform the rest of us "lurkers" about this A6, it's a good one.

Ron

[Sneakyws6]

Russ here is the current tune I am using and my stock tune, tell me what you see that I am missing.

[04blackgmc]

ok i found a tune tonight finally with TM and no flare and drives good here ya go.

my stock and the new tune.

[Sneakyws6]

All I can say if WOW, lots of writing a tune, testing it out, making more changes and then rewriting another tune...lol.

I figured out alot of things today while testing somethings. I found out that there are different clutch lock ups for Normal, Sport and Manual mode. I figured out which Base tables correlates to what mode (Normal, Sport, and Manual).

This will be my final transmission tune. I haveincreased the Main Pressure table some over stock then left the Base table X stock and added 20psi to the X & Y tables (for Sport and Manual modes).

This will allow the car to drive near stock when in Auto (normal) and then when it is in Sport or Manual mode the pressure will firm up for a more sportier shift.

Here is my tune and a screen shot with some info in it.

[8850]

I will offer a suggestion for a workaround way of reducing timing pulled on downshifts that has worked for me using "another programmer". I also had turned off all TQ Mgt and it still pulled downshift timing on my 2010 L99 Camaro.

It has a table in the ECM spark control section called "Maximinum Spark Retard" and you probably have a table like this. It limits the max spark the ECM can pull due to knock, TQ reduction, etc. I found it also limits the spark retard on downshifts to the pre set #s in the table. It is a ECT vs spark degrees table and was set at -20 deg. I have set mine to 10 deg and it doesn't go below that on my logs. You can fine tune the amount of TQ Reduction using it. Hope this helps.

I have followed you guys and have gained a lot of usefull info to help me tune my car. Even though I dont have all your tables, I still have managed to work up a tune that does well.

Thanks for all your doing to inform the rest of us "lurkers" about this A6, it's a good one.

Ron

Can you show a screen shot of that table. I am not finding a "Maximum Spark Retard" table in my 08 vette file under Spark Control.

[RonC]

Can you show a screen shot of that table. I am not finding a "Maximum Spark Retard" table in my 08 vette file under Spark Control.

I'm sorry, my tuning software is not HP Tuners and I thought yours might have table similar somewhere to do the same thing.

[Dan Wendling]

I started this thread but never really got the info I was looking for. My issue is that my shifts are happening much later than I have set in the tables. Only seems to be at WOT. For example in my tune I have 1>2 set for 28.2 mph in all tables and RPM set at 4850 also in all tables. The shift starts at 36 mph and ~6650 rpm and at times sets off the rpm limiter.

I really want to know why I set such low numbers and I can hardly get the shift to execute before the rpm limiter is hit.

See a short pull starting frame 54900, excuse the sloppy log.

[Sneakyws6]

Dan go into my thread in this forum and try out solution.

You need to connect to the car and open the scanner program and connect as normal. Then in the area of the scanner where you normally reset the fuel trims there are 2 transmission adaptive controllers that need to be reset. Once you reset those controllers see if your problem goes away.

Several of us have done this and it fixed our issues.

[SoCal]

I'm confused by the "Max Line Pressure" table and the "Base Shift Pressure" tables.

I thought "Max Line Pressure" was an overall limit. No matter what you put in the "Base Shift Pressure" tables, pressure wouldn't be allowed over the "Max Line Pressure" table values. The confusing part is that a lot of my stock "Base Shift Pressure" tables have values well above the "Max Line Pressure" table. Base Upshift - X, for example is almost entirely above 130. The stock Max table is almost entirely 105 or below.

Could it be that GM has a bunch of off the shelf base tables they always start with and then use the single max pressure table to rein them all in at once? Sort of like using the Cold Muliplier table to adjust torque management in one step. I guess that would work but it seems like a waste since they'd be taking tables with shapes (which must have taken work to come up with) and chopping them off flat.

I wonder if increasing just the Max Line Pressure table would yield any results. Seems like it would let the existing Base Shift Pressure tables work more aggressively. If that still wasn't enough, then the Max and Base tables could be raised further.

[Sneakyws6]

Yes you can just raise the Main Pressure table and it will firm up the shift but it will be through all of the modes AUTO, SPORT, and MANUAL.

I added some to the main table and then tailored the Base Shift Tables as well to make each pattern shift the way I want them to shift. As it is now my AUTO table shifts almost like stock but a little firmer, then my SPORT and MANUAL when under almost WOT have 20psi over stock for a firmer shift while in those modes.

[SoCal]

I really like the idea of adjusting Sport and Manual modes independently from Auto. Definitely want to try that.

Is your main max pressure table set higher than all of your individual base tables?

[Sneakyws6]

I Believe They Were, The Stock Tables Under The Main Are 105psi From 1-4, Mine Now Are In The 140 Range. Then I Left The Base "x" Table Alone And On The Base "y" Table I Added 20psi To The Last 2 Columns On The Right Side Through All Of The Tables Under That Base Table.

[SoCal]

Max Adapt volume 2-3 to 200

Russ K, can you clue me in on what the Max Adapt Volume settings are for? Any idea why the stock 2-3 setting is so far out of line with the rest?

Russ K or anybody, I was told by a reputable source (intimately involved with transmissions in the aftermarket) that 3rd gear in the 6L80E is not as "strong" as the others. Not sure exactly what that means. [I hate anything that starts with "I heard from some guy..." so sorry about that. Don't take this as gospel!] Anyway, might that have something to do with the oddball Max Adapt Volume setting for 2->3?

I've also noticed that the stock Base Shift Pressure tables have lower settings going into the odd number gears (2-3, 4-5) than going into the even number gears (1-2, 3-4, 5-6). Wonder if that is related to 3rd not being as "strong" as the others. Perhaps the relative strength of 5th wasn't worth mentioning since a WOT 4-5 shift is so rare.

[SoCal]

I found out what ever changes you make to the base tables that you have to make the same pressure changes all the way across that base pressure table.

Example on the Base X table, I originally only added 20 psi to the far right column on the 1>2, 2>3, 3>4, 4>5, and 5>6 tables and left the others alone.

Well the transmission does not like that, causes some flare shifts because of the factory ship shift parameters. Once I made the same changes across all of the tables under that Base pressure table all is well once again.

Still tweaking along though...Uggghhhh...lol

That is why I said to add 60 psi to the shift pressure tables, that means the entire table, not just the right column. These trans work a lot different then the A4 trans.

Russ Kemp

I Believe They Were, The Stock Tables Under The Main Are 105psi From 1-4, Mine Now Are In The 140 Range. Then I Left The Base "x" Table Alone And On The Base "y" Table I Added 20psi To The Last 2 Columns On The Right Side Through All Of The Tables Under That Base Table.

I screwed the pooch today. I tried to add 20 psi to the bottom, right 9 cells in my Y and Z Base Shift Pressure tables. (Figured I'd leave cold and lower torque settings alone) Also raised Max Adapt Volume 2-3 to 120 (split difference between stock 40 and 200's for all the others) Loaded that. Used a Tech2 for Trans Fast Adapt (did not go as smoothly as I would have liked - so maybe that is related). Now I have flare at shifts.

I know Russ K said you have to apply a common change across entire tables as illustrated by Sneakyws6's experience. But I thought the recent discovery of the Trans adapt stuff did away with that restriction - judging by the fact that Sneakyws6 ended up successfully using non-uniform Base Shift Pressure table changes. Any ideas why I can't get away with it, too?

[SoCal]

I'll stop after this before I wear out the "Post Reply" button!

Sneakyws6, just to confirm, when you changed your Base Shift Pressure tables most recently, did you do ALL of them for a given pattern letter? Earlier you mentioned just adjusting the single gear ones : 1->2, 2->3, etc. I'm wondering if the multiple gear ones should be changed, too: 1->3, 2->4, etc.

Thanks.

[Sneakyws6]

You Have To Make The Change Across The Entire Tables For The Base Pressure Table For All Gear Changes Including The Skip Changes.

If You Dont The Tranny Behaves A Little Goofy.

[SoCal]

Thanks, Sneakyws6. I've since gone back to my previous tune (and clicked on HP's Trans Adapt buttons just for kicks). All seems to be back to normal. I still get paranoid anytime the transmission takes an extra fraction of a second to do something. I've spent a lot of time working with an aftermarket transmission controller in a different application for the last couple weeks. So now it is habit to pay close attention to the trans going about its business. That's not helping my paranoia.

... On The Base "y" Table I Added 20psi To The Last 2 Columns On The Right Side ...

I guess I got fixated on this line and thought I could make non-uniform changes to the Base Shift Pressure tables. I definitely won't try that again! Thanks for the clarification on that and the skip changes.