Greg Banish injector spread sheet

[DSteck]

I still have some headroom on the cylinder air mass, and I just need enough extra overhead to spray a 150-shot (sprayed dry a foot before the MAF).

Even so, has anybody written anything about how to properly scale everything? Is it possible to put one of the later PCMs with the higher CAM limit in an '06 vehicle?

[RWTD]

Even so, has anybody written anything about how to properly scale everything?

The write-up would take days of work to make it complete and proper. Like I said, there are probably 50 or more parameters that would need to be scaled, at least what I have researched and actually modified (thanks to input by Greg). There's also parameters we don't have access to in HPT, but for the most part what they give us is plenty to make this work just fine. On the Gen4 calibrations, some of the knock sensor parameters even are based on airflow (Knock Sensor Multipliers, Knock Sensor Tip In Transient Mode Airmass Min, Knock Retard Decay Decay Rate, Burst Knock Retard Base vs. CylairDelta, and Static Retard Enable), so that has to be taken into account, as well, otherwise the knock sensor sensitivity/measurement of the cylinders will be off.

Just remember, it's ANY parameter that references airflow and torque, so this means the shift pressure parameters, as well. For example:

Gen 3 Auto vehicles:

Open an '02 Camaro/Firebird A4 file, and this is the stock normal table:

ft.lb--->	0	20	40	60	80	100	120	140	160	180	200	220	240	260	280	300	320	340	360	380	400	420	440	460	480	500	520	540	560	580	600	620	640
1 -> 2 Shift	0	0	0	0	2	4.4	7	10.2	13.7	16.9	20.7	24.7	27.5	32	35.6	39.4	42.8	46	48.8	52	54	56	59.1	61.5	64.4	67.3	70.5	73.2	75.4	77.6	79.2	81.7	84.9
2 -> 3 Shift	0	0	0	0	3	6	9.7	13.3	17	21.6	26	29.3	32.3	34.6	36.3	38	40	40.9	42.4	44.4	46.2	48.7	51	53.8	56.6	59.1	61.6	63.4	65	66.6	67.8	69.3	71.2
3 -> 4 Shift	0	0	0	1.5	3.4	6.8	10.2	13.6	17	19.3	22.9	26	29.5	32.7	36	39.4	42.9	46.4	50.3	54.5	58	61.4	64.8	68.2	71.6	75	78.4	81.8	85.3	88.7	90	90	90

If you do a scale by 50%, then ALL your estimated torque by the pcm would be 1/2 of what it was originally, so you would need to change the table to this:

ft.lb--->	0	20	40	60	80	100	120	140	160	180	200	220	240	260	280	300	320	340	360	380	400	420	440	460	480	500	520	540	560	580	600	620	640
1 -> 2 Shift	0	0	0	7	13.7	20.7	27.5	35.6	42.8	48.8	54	59.1	64.4	70.5	75.4	79.2	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9	84.9
2 -> 3 Shift	0	0	0	9.7	17	26	32.3	36.3	40	42.4	46.2	51	56.6	61.6	65	67.8	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2	71.2
3 -> 4 Shift	0	0	0	10.2	17	22.9	29.5	36	42.9	50.3	58	64.8	71.6	78.4	85.3	90	90	90	90	90	90	90	90	90	90	90	90	90	90	90	90	90	90

Do you see how that works? You start at the far left, leave the 0 column alone, and then take whatever is double of the next column, find that data, and then paste into the next column. Meaning, you take the 40 column and paste that into the 20 column, the 80 column and paste that into the 40 column, the 120 column and paste that into the 60 column, the 160 column and paste that into the 80 column, etc, etc, etc, then fill all the remaining columns with the last column once you get past the column that is 1/2 of the last columns ft.lb value (in this case, the last column is 640, so all columns 320 and above have the same value). This still allows the tcm to deliver the correct shift pressures to the trans. If you don't do this, you'll get much less pressures on the shift, and that will eventually burn the transmission up. Does that make sense? Trust me, it's right, however.

Gen 4 Auto (A4 or A6) vehicles:

As long as you have the latest beta, you can actually edit the ft.lb axis labels on the Gen4 vehicles, which makes this a lot easier. In example, open an '08 C6 A6 file, and the "Base Shift Pressure Upshift - X, 1-2" table shows:

	0	111	221	332	443
-22	145	145	145	145	145
14	102	145	145	145	145
68	58	145	145	203	203
86	58	145	145	203	203
257	58	145	145	203	203

(Note: ft.lb is at the top, and on the left hand side is Trans Oil Temp)

So by doing a 50% scale, you'd do this:

	0	55.5	110.5	166	221.5
-22	145	145	145	145	145
14	102	145	145	145	145
68	58	145	145	203	203
86	58	145	145	203	203
257	58	145	145	203	203

One day I'll do a writeup on everything I changed, and even try to do it complete with pictures.

Is it possible to put one of the later PCMs with the higher CAM limit in an '06 vehicle?

My thinking on this is YES for any '06-'07 LS2, '06-'09 LS7, and '08 LS3 (they didn't have the higher IFR limit that the '09 LS3 does)! You would more than likely need three things:

1: '09 LS3 pcm and calibration (both hardware and software)
2: Pedal assembly
3: TB

I don't think anything has changed, but pinouts would need to be compared, as well.

[ct06gto]

Greg, Can you give me the details on what you need from fast?

[DSteck]

I don't really care about transmission stuff since I'm purely concerned with my own car, which is an M6.

Did the 09 Z06 PCM get the higher IFR limit as well?... This would be something worth looking into for me. I wonder if the throttle body and pedal assembly changed from 06 to 09 for the Z06.

[RWTD]

I don't really care about transmission stuff since I'm purely concerned with my own car, which is an M6.

Yes, I know, hehe, but I posted that up for those who would ask in the future, and it makes it easier to reference them to that post.

Did the 09 Z06 PCM get the higher IFR limit as well?... This would be something worth looking into for me. I wonder if the throttle body and pedal assembly changed from 06 to 09 for the Z06.

No, hence why I said:

"any '06-'07 LS2, '06-'09 LS7, and '08 LS3"

So, the '09 Z06 got the same pedal assembly and TB that the '09 LS3 got.

As far as 2010, not sure what's going to happen there, as I do know (thanks to devilyellow) that they relocated all the pcms up higher on the framerail. Was this done because of weather related issues and/or servicing issues? Probably both. However, will the pcm change to the newer E38 or stay with the same E38 the Z06 has continued to have? I'm hoping it'll go to the newer one that the LS3 uses.

[Cantalope Kid]

Yes, the Advanced GM Tuning course picks up where the DVD leaves off. That's why I'm offering the discount on the Advanced class for those who bought the DVD from Summit. (I even sent out free copies of the DVD to all my prior Advanced GM students) Anyone who signs up for my Advanced GM class and hasn't bought the DVD gets a free copy ahead of time just to help them getup to speed prior to attending. This frees up time during the two day class to focus on more involved topics like proper scaling, Virtual VE, big cams, etc.

Aww hell! I didn't get the MEMO this was happening. Shipping date?

[LowePerf]

(I even sent out free copies of the DVD to all my prior Advanced GM students)

Got mine yesterday! Thanks Greg!

[ct06gto]

I sent an email to Fast requesting data. Can everyone spare a few minutes to do the same. The more people we get asking the better are chances of getting this valuable information is. I emailed [email protected]. This is what i sent.

" Im looking for all the injector information that you can give me to fully characterize all your injectors for data pertaining to a spreadsheet for customized tuning. Im afraid that your product is being shyed away from because no one can get any information to tune injector offset tables, short pulse adder tables and the minimum pulswidth table. If i can get this injector data it would be greatly appreciated by myself and the performace minded enthusiast alike.
Thank You
Paul Quint "

[RWTD]

Thank you for sending that!

There is absolutely no reason that the major injector manufacturers can't get off their asses and start flow testing their injectors like vehicle manufacturers do. Even Ford Racing does this on the injectors they sell!

So Comp owns Fast, yet Comp can give us cam specs, but they can't give us the proper injector specs we need? LOL!

[DSteck]

Yes, I know, hehe, but I posted that up for those who would ask in the future, and it makes it easier to reference them to that post.

Understandable. I should have put a after it so it didn't seem like I was just being pompous.

No, hence why I said:

"any '06-'07 LS2, '06-'09 LS7, and '08 LS3"

So, the '09 Z06 got the same pedal assembly and TB that the '09 LS3 got.

Do you mean same as the '08 LS3 got? So the '09 PCM does have the higher cylinder air mass limit?

[RWTD]

Understandable. I should have put a after it so it didn't seem like I was just being pompous.

I knew u weren't being. No worries.

Do you mean same as the '08 LS3 got? So the '09 PCM does have the higher cylinder air mass limit?

No, the LS7 in '09 got the same TB that the '09 LS3 got, & I believe the same pedal assembly, due to the TB (I'll check part #s tomorrow).

The '08 LS3 did not get the increased IFR limit, but did get the increased MAF range. The '09 LS7 kept the same PCM as previous LS7s ('06-'08), thus the same MAF & IFR limitations.

[DSteck]

Screw it, I'm switching to a carb.

[backchannel]

Screw it, I'm switching to a carb.

Hey--more power!

[ct06gto]

Matt Maxwell at fast does not have any answers for us but he is going to look into it.

[RWTD]

Matt Maxwell at fast does not have any answers for us but he is going to look into it.

Hey, that's a start, and is good to hear.

P.s Sounds like a porn star name, HAHA!

[0-60n3]

Any updates from FAST? I have 46lbers and I'd like to have more than just the 58/58/46 rating.

[RWTD]

Nope.

[firehawk26]

Yes, the Advanced GM Tuning course picks up where the DVD leaves off. That's why I'm offering the discount on the Advanced class for those who bought the DVD from Summit. (I even sent out free copies of the DVD to all my prior Advanced GM students) Anyone who signs up for my Advanced GM class and hasn't bought the DVD gets a free copy ahead of time just to help them getup to speed prior to attending. This frees up time during the two day class to focus on more involved topics like proper scaling, Virtual VE, big cams, etc.

Is it going to be on a DVD or a book . for the Advanced GM Tuning course

[Andy@A&A]

No, the LS7 in '09 got the same TB that the '09 LS3 got, & I believe the same pedal assembly, due to the TB (I'll check part #s tomorrow).

The '08 LS3 did not get the increased IFR limit, but did get the increased MAF range. The '09 LS7 kept the same PCM as previous LS7s ('06-'08), thus the same MAF & IFR limitations.

Please explain (in simple terms) why the TB affects the MAF and IFR limits.
I ask this because I routinely swap the 08 TB into 09 cars to clear my supercharger bracket. It doesn't seem to affect tuning at all.

[RWTD]

Please explain (in simple terms) why the TB affects the MAF and IFR limits.
I ask this because I routinely swap the 08 TB into 09 cars to clear my supercharger bracket. It doesn't seem to affect tuning at all.

Andy, the TB won't affect the airflow model. Now, when you do swap, you should always copy the ETC Area from the vehicle's calibration who's TB you are using into the new vehicle's calibration, as this will allow proper control of the ETC, as well as all the idle parameters.