cammed - headers vs no headers - spark advance

[ayousef]

Im wondering if its usually possible to squeeze in a few degrees of spark advance going from stock manifolds/cats to catless longtubes on a cammed LS7.

is my assumption correct?

[Mep_q8]

yes it is

[firehawk26]

The max i did is on these cars with CAL and long tubes was 26* WOT and we gain 500HP on the wheel but we use 98 OCTANE over hear so where are not afraid that we are going to have any knock with it .

[ayousef]

The max i did is on these cars with CAL and long tubes was 26* WOT and we gain 500HP on the wheel but we use 98 OCTANE over hear so where are not afraid that we are going to have any knock with it .

where is over here? if you;re in the middle east and/or Europe then you're probably mistaken, and a big mistake for that matter, our 98 octane is rated at RON (research octane number) and is equivalent to 93 octane US which is rated at AKI (RON+MON)/2

http://www.adnoc-dist.co.ae/eplus/TechnicalInfo.aspx

Also, on a sidenote I dont think 26 is possible unless you're not using the OPTIMAL afr of 12.8:1. CAI, headers, and a cam on an LS7 should do around 23degrees if im not mistaken.

[ayousef]

yes it is

hope you're right, were at 19-20, with a min of 18.5 and a max of 20.5, hoping to get closer to 23 degrees of total advance at WOT, on a cammed, cai 11.4:1 CR LS7.

1st gear, since the vehicle usually spins the car can hit cells that are as high as 25* near redline without any KR, which is good.

[firehawk26]

where is over here? if you;re in the middle east and/or Europe then you're probably mistaken, and a big mistake for that matter, our 98 octane is rated at RON (research octane number) and is equivalent to 93 octane US which is rated at AKI (RON+MON)/2

http://www.adnoc-dist.co.ae/eplus/TechnicalInfo.aspx

Also, on a sidenote I dont think 26 is possible unless you're not using the OPTIMAL afr of 12.8:1. CAI, headers, and a cam on an LS7 should do around 23degrees if im not mistaken.

I understand that .. but we got the 98AKI octane over hear and yes am in the middle east in kuwait... and even the colors is green deferent then the one you got in the link i don't know if that's is just in UAE who knows it says it world wide but there is something its ony made for kuwait its the 105 octane and its pink if am not wrong and that is so expensive for normall people they made it because they found a lot off brocken motors from the Europe expensive cars so a team from there came and saw that the fuel was the problem and they made that 105 octane for them and for every one .
and am sure that you guys in UAE you got the same 95 and 91 but the 98 and the new 105 they call it the uro.. , know one has it in the meddle east except kuwait i didn't saw it in any country in the middle east i dont know if you have it in UAE yet or not .

and yes am using the 12.8.1 OPTIMAL AFR with 26degrees with no problem at all with my new LAMBDA_PRO on 2008 ZO6 .

we are all hear to learn and share every one experience and if am wrong hope some one will correct me .

and hope i can get something for you about that octane from my brother he is mechanic engineering in KNPC in oil company hear in kuwait so he is going to give me some more info about the octane that is used in the street .

[ayousef]

bro 26degrees of timing sounds nice if we can get there lol, but for the time being, were much lower than that. I wondering if after the headers the car could pick up another 3 degrees of timing, otherwise there will definitely be something wrong somewhere!!

we now only have the 98, and 95, the 91 was cancelled a few years ago, but no we dont have a 105, and I dont think well have one in the near future!!

man you now got me all worried about the timing issue on my friends car lol. 11.4:1 should maybe run one less degree of timing, and not the 26 you're running since we dont have that kind of fuel, but about 23-24*

Also double check with ur friend regarding the octane, this is new to me, 105octane is crazy bro

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

I have to ask, why do you want to "squeeze" more timing out of it? More timing does not always equal more power. You may be able to add 3º to something and see no change in power (so there is no need to do it).

[HNK]

Why do you think optimal AFR is at 12.8? From what BP listed a while back, they should optimal for premium pump is around 12.5 i think. I have gotten few more RWHP going to 13 but will stay around 12.5 for now.

[ayousef]

Why do you think optimal AFR is at 12.8? From what BP listed a while back, they should optimal for premium pump is around 12.5 i think. I have gotten few more RWHP going to 13 but will stay around 12.5 for now.

Just the norm for NA cars i guess , I dont know however if the car would like a slightly rich mixture and more timing before peak torque, and lean it out after but would experiment.

Now tuning for 12.5 is good, and 12.8 isnt far off if you think of it. Also if you got more power going to 13, then im sure there is more power with 12.8 over 12.5 I know gains are minimal but for street cars NA cars that seems to be a good range for power.

Hell I think you could even command 13 on the top end with no issues.

[ayousef]

I have to ask, why do you want to "squeeze" more timing out of it? More timing does not always equal more power. You may be able to add 3º to something and see no change in power (so there is no need to do it).

you're right, but comparing many tunes for the same engine, slightly different compression ratios seem to show that most of them are running more timing without knock, and im sure for a fact that im in a range (19-20) where increasing would net us a good increase in power. If I was at 23-24 I probably wouldnt bother, I understand the law of diminishing returns has a good application here.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

Don't bother looking at other tunes. Tune your setup based on what it likes. It doesn't mean those other cars are making more power. They could be doing more harm than good. I see LS1 tunes all the time with 30º of timing, I would never run one that high, there is no need for it.

[firehawk26]

bro 26degrees of timing sounds nice if we can get there lol, but for the time being, were much lower than that. I wondering if after the headers the car could pick up another 3 degrees of timing, otherwise there will definitely be something wrong somewhere!!

we now only have the 98, and 95, the 91 was cancelled a few years ago, but no we dont have a 105, and I dont think well have one in the near future!!

man you now got me all worried about the timing issue on my friends car lol. 11.4:1 should maybe run one less degree of timing, and not the 26 you're running since we dont have that kind of fuel, but about 23-24*

Also double check with ur friend regarding the octane, this is new to me, 105octane is crazy bro

As you know we are the second country in the world that export fuel and oil to out side kuwait and as you don't know that we do a special orders for some type off fuel that is more than 105 octane for some off the biggest company in the world that use big and heavy equipment.

any way we would like to see you over hear and bring your ZO6 so you can tray the new fuel we got .I know you are not going to handle it because you are going to pay just for 1/4 tank $150 U.S dollar .so it has to be new to you as you are going to be really crazy off it .

And i don't need to take it long with you that we are the second country in the world that has the best refinery in the world .. you shouldn't be einstein that you should know every thing about ower fuel and what we make and do some type off it it should let einstein to know about it .

[HNK]

As you know we are the second country in the world that export fuel and oil to out side kuwait and as you don't know that we do a special orders for some type off fuel that is more than 105 octane for some off the biggest company in the world that use big and heavy equipment.

any way we would like to see you over hear and bring your ZO6 so you can tray the new fuel we got .I know you are not going to handle it because you are going to pay just for 1/4 tank $150 U.S dollar .so it has to be new to you as you are going to be really crazy off it .

Are you saying your gas stations have that octane? which ones? What was harmful to the high end cars in kuwait is your gold one. That i believe was very high in sulfur and it damaged rubber seals in the fuel system. your green stuff is very good but i dont think its made in kuwait, fareast is what i heard.

[firehawk26]

Are you saying your gas stations have that octane? which ones? What was harmful to the high end cars in kuwait is your gold one. That i believe was very high in sulfur and it damaged rubber seals in the fuel system. your green stuff is very good but i dont think its made in kuwait, fareast is what i heard.

Yes our gas station has it but not all off them some off them do.. As i mentioned before it was made to fix the problem on the eurob expensive cars that they found a lot off brocken engine and pistons and detonation on it because off the fuel that we use . so as this big company they had meting with the oil company so they can do that kind fuel but let me be honest with you i never used it but i heard a lot off good results out off it for some off the cars that they used it . but i recommend the green one that you can find in the gas station and its 100% made in kuwait . we have the best refinery in the world that it make a lot off deferent type off fuel that me and you don't know about .

[HNK]

Yes our gas station has it but not all off them some off them do.. As i mentioned before it was made to fix the problem on the eurob expensive cars that they found a lot off brocken engine and pistons and detonation on it because off the fuel that we use . so as this big company they had meting with the oil company so they can do that kind fuel but let me be honest with you i never used it but i heard a lot off good results out off it for some off the cars that they used it . but i recommend the green one that you can find in the gas station and its 100% made in kuwait . we have the best refinery in the world that it make a lot off deferent type off fuel that me and you don't know about .

I am sure kuwait does have great refineries, but for such a small market who uses the green stuff, it would be cheaper to get it from outside. Will look for the high octane one next time i visit which will be in the next couple of weeks.

[ayousef]

As you know we are the second country in the world that export fuel and oil to out side kuwait and as you don't know that we do a special orders for some type off fuel that is more than 105 octane for some off the biggest company in the world that use big and heavy equipment.

any way we would like to see you over hear and bring your ZO6 so you can tray the new fuel we got .I know you are not going to handle it because you are going to pay just for 1/4 tank $150 U.S dollar .so it has to be new to you as you are going to be really crazy off it .

And i don't need to take it long with you that we are the second country in the world that has the best refinery in the world .. you shouldn't be einstein that you should know every thing about ower fuel and what we make and do some type off it it should let einstein to know about it .

Dont get me wrong, but where are you coming up with this BS, are you dreaming? Since when was Kuwait the 2nd oil exporter in the world, I swear to god this is the funniest thing I heard TODAY.

Top Ten Oil Exporting Countries (2007)

* Saudi Arabia (8.73 million barrels per day)
* Russia (6.67)
* Norway (2.91)
* Iran (2.55)
* Venezuela (2.36)
* United Arab Emirates (2.33)
* Kuwait (2.20)
* Nigeria (2.19)
* Mexico (1.80)
* Algeria (1.68)

So you're saying that you surpassed Russia, and more than TRIPLED the oil exported? If so please show me the latest data to support this, the max I found was for 2008 which looked VERY similar, except it was some sort of a weird file format.

If you're exotic Euro cars were blowing up because of excessive detonation, and you're country is COLDER than Dubai, that tells me how good ur oil refineries are, and perhaps octane rating methods. You know we have the most Bugatti veyrons in the damn world and all the other supercars for that matter, tell me how come none of them blew up their engines - taking from you that - youd need 105AKI which is probably like 115 octane RON fuel vs our measly 98octane which all cars seem to run fine off.

OEM vehicle tuners take the vehicle to as far as you can imagine, to make them safetly run on even the crap fuels, because in certain parts of the world you might be forced to, California pump gas is only 91, do we hear of vehicles blowing up into pieces from that fuel? Thats the whole point of having so many parameters in a tune, for high altitudes, sea level, cold weather, hot weather, good fuel, bad fuel etc... Ever wondered what the LO spark table is for?

It has nothing to do with being EINSTEIN according to you, but all you need is a little sense of LOGIC for starters.

PS. only three stations have ur exotic euro fuel throughout kuwait.....

[ayousef]

I am sure kuwait does have great refineries, but for such a small market who uses the green stuff, it would be cheaper to get it from outside. Will look for the high octane one next time i visit which will be in the next couple of weeks.

I dont even know what kind of fuel would run for $150 for a 1/4 tank, we pay 30DHS for more than 1/4 tank over here, which is LESS than $9.

So comparing fuel that costs $9 vs $150 for the added octane sounds WAAAY off to me.

I could buy higher octane racing fuel for cheaper than that

[firehawk26]

am not going to take any farther with you because when allways comes to kuwait every one gets mad ... any good luck with your tune . and please cheack the 2008 and 2009 Exporting thats why ower 1 denar is 12,8 tims the Dirhams .
and yes get race fuel its cheaper an it let you raise some timing .am done .
and yes you can google good .

[HNK]

Dont get me wrong, but where are you coming up with this BS, are you dreaming? Since when was Kuwait the 2nd oil exporter in the world, I swear to god this is the funniest thing I heard TODAY.




So you're saying that you surpassed Russia, and more than TRIPLED the oil exported? If so please show me the latest data to support this, the max I found was for 2008 which looked VERY similar, except it was some sort of a weird file format.

If you're exotic Euro cars were blowing up because of excessive detonation, and you're country is COLDER than Dubai, that tells me how good ur oil refineries are, and perhaps octane rating methods. You know we have the most Bugatti veyrons in the damn world and all the other supercars for that matter, tell me how come none of them blew up their engines - taking from you that - youd need 105AKI which is probably like 115 octane RON fuel vs our measly 98octane which all cars seem to run fine off.

OEM vehicle tuners take the vehicle to as far as you can imagine, to make them safetly run on even the crap fuels, because in certain parts of the world you might be forced to, California pump gas is only 91, do we hear of vehicles blowing up into pieces from that fuel? Thats the whole point of having so many parameters in a tune, for high altitudes, sea level, cold weather, hot weather, good fuel, bad fuel etc... Ever wondered what the LO spark table is for?

It has nothing to do with being EINSTEIN according to you, but all you need is a little sense of LOGIC for starters.

That was some attack, maybe he meant 2nd in the region which is most likely true before till recently.

I dont think he was talking only about octane. I know for a fact that a lot of our exotics used to go for fuel system renewals every few months. That was before kuwait got the unleaded Green. further more, the summer heat in kuwait is hell for cars, so not many fast cars did their business like they are suppose to. The old GOLD pumps had terrible qualities and did the most damage. Now its a different story.