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Thread: 100mm Maf kickin my Butt!!!

  1. #41
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    I did buy both aluminum and plastic the difference in thickness between the two is hard to see you would have to use a micrometer to tell so i dont believe there would be much if any pressure drop.As for duability i left it in fuel and ethenol for a week no effect and did have it in the oven all good.
    Only went the plastic due to the smaller holes.
    If you can get 1/8 in aluminium I will give that a go and do logs on both.

  2. #42
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxxon68 View Post
    I will have some samples of 1/8" cells by the weekend. Can I get a few US or CA residents to sign up for a free sample in return for feedback of the 1/8" cells? Like the first 4 folks who will reply to the post here and agree to post or supply some feedback. Then I will get your mailing info in a PM.
    If this offer is still open I'd love to try it out! I am using the same 4" intercooler to throttle body pipe with a card style MAF Like CarlRX7 is.
    Last edited by 5_Liter_Eater; 11-11-2009 at 09:29 AM.
    Bill Winters

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  3. #43
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    Hey guys, just following along your topic here and have a quick question.... What is a "Card style" MAF?

  4. #44
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Its the MAF used in the LS3 and LS7's. I think Ford has used them for a while too. It's a card that fits into a bung in the intake. So this allows you to change the size of the intake which changes the frequency/flow. Making the intake diameter larger lowers the Hz per g/sec. which is useful for us FI guys who max out the MAF tables by ~5000 RPM.
    Bill Winters

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  5. #45
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Bill Winters

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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxxon68 View Post
    I will have some samples of 1/8" cells by the weekend. Can I get a few US or CA residents to sign up for a free sample in return for feedback of the 1/8" cells? Like the first 4 folks who will reply to the post here and agree to post or supply some feedback. Then I will get your mailing info in a PM.

    Now shaun claims to have plastic cells. I never know the applications when I ship the stuff out so it is a shock to me. I would think the diamond shapes between the circles would impeed flow more. Although I have seen some impressive performance of the plastic cells with PC fans and as fanless intake (for control).

    ZZMike- I thought it was Schenker also, but I wiki'ed it because I always liked the photo. Some of Helnwein's work is more hellish and bloody than the album cover.
    Jason,

    I'd love to do some testing on the 1/8" version.

    Please let me know.

    Mike

  7. #47
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    I can also do testing, PM sent.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater View Post
    Its the MAF used in the LS3 and LS7's. I think Ford has used them for a while too. It's a card that fits into a bung in the intake. So this allows you to change the size of the intake which changes the frequency/flow. Making the intake diameter larger lowers the Hz per g/sec. which is useful for us FI guys who max out the MAF tables by ~5000 RPM.
    Thanks as always man! Good info for my plans next summer. Please, continue on fellers'.... lol
    2000 Trans Am WS6

  9. #49
    Tuner in Training Saxxon68's Avatar
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    Ok I sent a PM to 4 members. Now this material is washed after being cut, but not pressure washed. (the plastic is pressure washed) The foil gauge is .001 inches and cells are cut to partial cells to make circles. Since this is running after the air cleaner, aren't you worried about foreign material entering the engine? Like a loose piece of aluminum or dust? Sounds like your in and out of your intakes all the time so I was just wondering.
    Are you guys sure about 100mm inside dia.? The photo the cells look a little crushed in to get it to fit. Anyone have one they can measure the inside dia. with calipers? It is best to fit tight, but not to crush cells on install.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxxon68 View Post
    Ok I sent a PM to 4 members. Now this material is washed after being cut, but not pressure washed. (the plastic is pressure washed) The foil gauge is .001 inches and cells are cut to partial cells to make circles. Since this is running after the air cleaner, aren't you worried about foreign material entering the engine? Like a loose piece of aluminum or dust? Sounds like your in and out of your intakes all the time so I was just wondering.
    Are you guys sure about 100mm inside dia.? The photo the cells look a little crushed in to get it to fit. Anyone have one they can measure the inside dia. with calipers? It is best to fit tight, but not to crush cells on install.
    The pipe I am using is a 4" OD with a 0.060" wall thickness. Theoretically that works out to a ~98.6mm ID, but I would guess most people's are going to vary by at least a mm or two, depending on pipe wall thickness and who manufactured it.

    I am not worried about a particle or two of dust getting into the engine. If I can get it mostly clean, I wouldn't anticipate any problems. Chunks of aluminum could pose a problem if the screen starts to come apart, but hopefully that won't be the case. Semi-frequent check-ups would probably be a good idea until the material proves itself.

  11. #51
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    I am also using a 4" pipe. I have no reservations about cutting to size, if that helps. I always ensure parts and pieces are clean before install, but the initial wash does make my job easier.

    Regards,

    Mike

  12. #52
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    I can accurately measure the ID tonight but how Carl did it looks fine to me. It's got to be somewhat of a press fit.
    Bill Winters

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  13. #53
    Tuner in Training Saxxon68's Avatar
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    I pick off any obvious stray pieces, but don't obsess about it like if I was putting it in my car. Not sure what it a slice of it would do in my '98 Firebird V6. Which is probably LP Tuned.

    I added a link specific to the MAF application, which folks are finding. Hope to have 1/8" aluminum cells avail soon. http://www.saxonpc.com/100mm-cells-for-100.html

    The 1/8" aluminum cells will be thicker foil wall than this 3/16 material. At .001" it is fine if you set it and leave it, but it can be scratched easily with a screwdriver or tool if your not careful.

  14. #54
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    thumbs up!

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMGT1 View Post
    Hey guys, just following along your topic here and have a quick question.... What is a "Card style" MAF?
    Its a Hitachi MAF (or rather, T-MAF) sensor.. I think Audis also use them.. And if thats true, so do the 20 or so branches of VAG. Volkswagen Auto Group that is.. I think our cars (GM) are the only bunch that reference hz instead of volts.

    Does anyone know of a cheap source for the weld in slot-style bungs? I could try my hand at an all-in-one piece.. bung and screen pre-welded in.
    2006 Trailblazer SS - Stalled, Cammed, Tuned, Turbo'd, Built, and Stroked.
    Runs on cash, blood, sweat, and tears...... and 93 octane.

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  16. #56
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    I don't know about cheap, but when I was experimenting with different up pipes to experiment with laminar airflow solutions for my STS kit, I bought several from these guys.

    http://www.vmptuning.com/store/index...d=257&parent=0

    Cheers,

    Mike

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZZMike View Post
    I don't know about cheap, but when I was experimenting with different up pipes to experiment with laminar airflow solutions for my STS kit, I bought several from these guys.

    http://www.vmptuning.com/store/index...d=257&parent=0

    Cheers,

    Mike
    Holy rip off!

    GM makes this part, you can get it from pretty much any GM parts dealer. List price...~$7

    GM part number 19166574

  18. #58
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    I saw those, but did not use them because they are aluminum.

    Cheers,

    Mike

  19. #59
    Tuner in Training Saxxon68's Avatar
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    I think more than the perfect cell size it best to ascertain the best ratio for you guys. Then I can use that ratio in 1/8" cells if needed. I got some samples of the 1/8" aluminum but it is only 1/2" thick so 4:1 ratio. Sure looks nice, that small of cells you buy more aluminum material than space like the 3/16 so it is more expensive.
    So the volunteers I will ship 3 pieces:
    1/2" thick 1/8" cell 4:1 ratio
    1" thick 3/16" cell 5:1 ratio
    3/4" thick 1/8" cell 6:1 ratio

    I am sure you will find two are pretty close in results but who knows. I attempted to take a photo of each cell size relative to a dime for reference.

    Attachment 20994


    Which ever ratio works best I can ensure a supply, or maybe two choices.

  20. #60
    Tuner in Training Saxxon68's Avatar
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    Looking at the charts you posted and not very used to seeing this. What type of CFM is an automotive intake drawing at idle and say 2k RPM? If you have a volume per minute I can probably figure it out in CFM. Just wondering so I might simulate it. Jealous that ZZmike has a smoke wand What do those run $? Not easy to find online.
    The restriction of the material seems to be somewhat beneficial. Incoming air is a fluid it will take the easiest path. Which will have a normal distribution within the system like the natural flow image below.
    Attachment 21076
    The honeycomb cell placed in the location of the previous easiest path restricts it a %, but instead of losing that flow volume, it is displaced to a previous difficult path cell. Making a more consistant flow across the entire system.
    I noticed this playing with a few dozen smoke bombs.
    Here the system is open and the smoke lazily takes the course to the fan output.
    Attachment 21077

    With the cells in place it is all business, the air sweeps in fast, goes directly down. One of the wind tunnel sites I have read said once you "straighten" the air and remove all the tiny eddies, and the distribution is even. It is much easier to control. For corners and such.
    Attachment 21078