where to start... no really...

[thebeewantsboost]

hey guys
i've read a couple of post with people asking where to start, and those people got flamed like marshmallows...

...if different people could just lay out the order and what things they go through that would be awesome...

i'm curious about where u would start in a mostly stock setup versus where u would start in n/a motor, that a turbo kit was installed on(not n/a anymore i realize)

i've read contradicting thoughts on wether or not to tune the VE. whats right?

i plan on turbocharging my camaro soon and thats why i purchased hptuners and i've been researching like crazy, and i realize people have there own ways. but there has got to be a method to the madness..

[murphinator]

wow a full day with no replies

I guess on the bright side you havent got flamed

have you worked with any other tuners previously ?

I would say if not start by familiarizing yourself with the scanner and its use/features and how to set up histograms as they will be greatly helpful as you start tuning.

also spend some time looking at the stickys & demos at the top of each forum that is of interest to you but especially the ones as the top of the getting started forum.

as far as the actual "tuning" you can spend some time in your tune familiarizing yourself with what is there available to be changed for your vehicle. any tab you click on will give a breif explanation of what it controls at the bottom and a handy thing to know is if you hit f1 at any time while you have your tune open it will open up the hp tuners help section to the part that pertains to the section of your tune you have open.

most beginners will make minor changes at first such as removing speed limiters , raising shift points , timing adjustments. etc...

initially you can start with the view set to beginner which will reveal the most commonly changed parameters and work your way up to advanced


do you have a wideband yet ? you will be needing one of those to tune WOT

[thebeewantsboost]

thank you for a response, i haven't picked up a wideband yet. but plan on it. i'm still waiting for the hptuners to arrive. and i'm sure i will spend countless hours j/ searching throught it. i have an hptuners tune and was there when the guy did it, but imo the guy who did it, wasn't a pro and couldn't haved care less... besides the neat little removing codes, rev limiter, speedlimiter, setting fans on/off n' such... after that.. (no other experience other than simple turning off vats and removing codes)

from what i've gathered most people do ve then maf? and it seems necessary to go in that order. should u get rid of your knock retard right off the bat? then do those? then advance it? do you need a wideband for steps other than wot?

can u tell me where u start with your vehicle(s) personally

[murphinator]

I am no guru so I have included a couple popular 3800 tuning links for you to view

http://www.hollandms.com/newbie/tuning_new.htm

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...emp+maf+tuning

I have seen another tuning link done by a member with a 3800 camaro that was turboed I just cant recall how I would find you that link but hopefully someone else will see this that knows where to find it since it will directly aply to what you are doing


everyone has their own opinion of what works best - tuning is both art & science since some tuners get great results doing things the wrong way as far as conventional wisdom goes.

idle & cruise you can tune with your narrowbands (via fuel trims) since they are extremely accurate around stoich

personally I spent most of my time at first with shift point & times , timing adjustments to get KR under control etc.. before I understood ve & maf tuning well enough to take a crack at it - I did ve first then maf

[thebeewantsboost]

i've read up on the turbo v6. hes got some good stuff. thank you for the links i will take a look when i get the chance. i've got a 5 speed so there isn't much in the way of shift points. i do appreciate your help and if anyone else wants to chime in that would be great.

[GeoJB]

Just lurking in the shadows and trying to learn & not wanting to be shot down.

[HawkZ28]

I agree with lurking and learning- I think all of us did that, and still continue to do so to a degree or another. Also, don't be afraid to look in other sections (GenIII, I4/5/6, etc) for additional learning....at the end of the day, we are all tuning an air pump, and most methods are universal.

I think the best tool that we have (aside from the forum) is the scanner- learn to use it to manipulate the data- ie filter so you get only what you want/need to tune. I have to 2nd the guys on a WBO2.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes. I finally feel I have a good grasp after about a year- and I asked a lot of 'dumb' questions too- but most of the gurus will chime in without flaming, unlike some model specific boards. The only dumb question is the one not asked. Except for "what flavor is chocolate syrup?". That one's just plain dumb .

[nmcqueen469]

Just lurking in the shadows and trying to learn & not wanting to be shot down.

+1. Can't wait for spring so I can actually start using some of this info my brain is overflowing with!

[HawkZ28]

I do like to test and tune in/for winter......the snow allows you to hit some cells on the upper end without getting into PE (so does gravel) and you can then have a winter tune and a summer tune

I picked up some extra MPG and power tuning for colder (-10 to 35*) IATs over my summer tune in the same temps.

[passingpower]

You're going to hate this reply but, the answer depends on how much work you're willing to put into your setup and how precise do you want your tune to be. There's ballpark, close, closer, nat's ass, and obsessive. Your learning curve and effort doubles or triples each step up you take - sorry. Think of it this way; to do the fun stuff (WOT) you have to have your fuel mix balanced for high load on YOUR PARTICULAR engine. How much air are you breathing? General consensus says that’s easy. “Log your LTFTs and tune your MAF transfer until your LTFTs are 0.0 in idle cruise and light acceleration.” Ok, what about the other side of the mix? Fuel. General consensus says “Stock injectors=stock IFR and performance injectors is the ratio of the aftermarket specs to the stock specs (whatever they are).” Oh yeah? Wanna bet an engine or two on that? Forget the injectors for a minute. What kind of gas are you burning? 100% petrol, 7.5% ethanol 10% 15%... Ethanol leans out a fuel mix and skews LTFTs - AND BY DEFAULT YOUR MAF TRANSFER if you don’t compensate for it. Air fuel mixture, stoich? How do you know? How old are your stock O2s? Are they switching fast enough to keep you at stoich (whatever that is). How about that new wideband, is it calibrated properly? Don’t forget the fuel filter is it half clogged leaning you out only at WOT? Vacuum leaks, clean MAF sensor?
I wasted so much time tuning VE and MAF ASSuming that I could rely on other parts of the stock setup. Big wakeup call there. As I learned more and more, I’d learn to calibrate more and more basic tables. (As well as VE, MAF and PE yet again, because they calculate using IFR, stoich, etc.) I also learned that factory engineers “factor in” variations in environment and gas quality as well as component age. Is that the way to tune for performance? Hell no! It’s how you tune for reliability and mediocrity as well as emissions for engines that will never be maintained by the vast majority of owners. Obsessive enough yet?
My point is, question EVERYTHING. NEVER assume that what worked for someone with the same engine as yours (in a different state with different gas at a different altitude with different weather) will work well on yours, especially if you are modified. If close is all you’re after then read some write-ups and have at it. Just don’t get too upset when they work just kinda, sorta, so-so. If you get sick of so-so, be prepared for a lot of learning and researching and CALIBRATE your most basic tables: Stoich, IFR, clean filters, sound sensors and servos, no leaks of any kind. BTW, the best place to research is HPtuners forum SEARCH is your friend. The last time I started from scratch, I asked myself “What’s the highest performance 3800 that GMPT produced?” I answered myself 2002 Camaro/Firebird. So, I dl’d a couple from the repository and based on my particular mods, pulled the airflow related tables over and made my own hybrid spark timing tables. After that, I calibrated my fuel tables using VCMsuite and then using a 6month old O2 sensor, tuned my MAF transfer table. I’m pleased to say, my LTFTs spend the majority of the time at 0.0 regardless of ambient or intake temperature. Although humidity will shift them around a few percent. I can trust my Fuel, I can trust my Air, that means I can tune my PE tables with confidence. That, and a full time knock indicator.

Never forget that everyone is here to help you.

[thebeewantsboost]

wow...

[gre-nilt]

Thnaks

[Dr. Nopps]

I've read a couple of post with people asking where to start, and those people got flamed like marshmallows...

Don't worry. Although this forum is full of posts like: "What button do I push to tune my car?", or "Where's the 1-800 number with the guy that holds my hand and spesks softly", its O.K. I can tell you're way far off from those guys! I've seen you about the forum over the past year so I'll skip the basics, (No DTC's - read stickies - ect...) and know you won't get scared that easily. Get a wideband. First I would test the MAF or replace, or trust the one you have - if you think you can. Perform a "Russ K" MAF tune on the STOCK
engine setup with OEM injectors, OEM exhaust, ect... all sensors perfect running flawlessly. (Now you should be tuned well enough for stock injectors & stock base airflow figures.) Figure out what size & brand injectors you will finally use at the end of this mad journey, (don't underestimate your motor for a seccond!) and make the committment. Install your awsome, brand new larger injectors on the otherwise stock motor and dial them in properly. (Untill you have matched the results of your old tune, as that's the only factor you have altered so far, airflow should be the same.) Now that you're setup properly for those injectors on the OEM motor, you can play with your breathing: port your heads, swap your cams, put on your aftermarket throttle body if applicable, install your Cold Air Intake, or mabey relocate MAF and associated tubing, install turbocharger as well as your aftermarket intake & exhaust maniflods and exhaust system. (All of which obviously affect airflow figures.) If you have enough time to dedicate to your project, or just feel as though you won't be able to trust your MAF forever, then feel free to to a VE tune and MAF tune to be safe. Now that you're setup properly for the porting & turbo you can tune NOS. Integrate a variable resistor to falsify sensor readings so that only when NOS is actively spraying, you will need to adjust the resistor so that it will skew the sensors readings to the extremely "cold" side of the scale, refering your PCM to the "colder" rows and columns of the Spark, and PE Fueling tables under spray conditions. Normally I would like to utilize the Air Intake Temp. Sensor or Air Charge Temp. Sensor (speed density motors), but with this OS it looks like you may have to go with the Coolant Temp. Sensor. In the "colder" rows of the ECT Spark tables, subtract the necessary ammount of timing you need during spray. And in the "colder" columns of the PE Fuel Base vs. ECT tables, enter the value that you think after some testing, calibrating, and re-testing will give you the safest final AFR readings during spray. That's just how I would do it. Sorry if you've already drasticly changed some stuff and don't wan't to go fully back to stock.

[planethax]

Sorry, just had to
Obviously prev poster was a bot.

[thebeewantsboost]

wow that was a long time ago, i do appreciate the response, i've successfully turbocharged my 3.8 camaro, it still needs tweaking, but its running good and plenty fast. theres always so much more to learn