Help

[sabastian458]

Ok, I have been fighting my car tooth and nail lately. I have really bad bucking problems. And now I am having random "Safty Mode" coming on. I can reflash the same tune in the ECU without changes and I can drive again. The car picks up a ton of KR while it is bucking, and when shifting gears, I have removed up to 3-5 degrees of timing in the section where I shift at, and where it shows KR. But it does not change the KR, same amount is there in the same place.

I really would love to have some insight on whats happening or what I am doing wrong. I posted my log and config, and I am working on trying to get my tune posted too.

*my tune is posted on ls1gto.com as hptuners.com will not let me upload my tune. http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348087

[sabastian458]

I am trying to post the tune, but every time I hit upload, it just sits there and wont upload/attach it. I have tryied about 12+ times now. and my mod's are in my sig

I attached a screen shot of where the upload screen gets stuck at. It will sit like this forever and never load the file

[69lt1bird]

Dang, we need your tune, something is very f'd up. Download Firefox and try that, maybe IE is being the pain.

[sabastian458]

I emailed my tune. here is my mod list

05 GTO M6

TF220's- Kooks 1 7/8- 240/244 .608/.596 112LSA-
Fast 92- No cats- 2.5 exhaust w/ x pipe- Linginfelter airfilter- IAT relocated- SLP 25% underdrive- 255lp fuel pump- 60lb tall injectors- stock bottom end.

I also have a Monster 3.5 with chromoly flywheel, Driveshaft shop 1 piece shaft, drag bags, and new stock AC delco plugs. I will have firecore plug wires next week, as well as a tick master.

[69lt1bird]

so is the tune going to get posted?

[69lt1bird]

Where did the base tune come from? In the Engine/General tab, the Cylinder Volume is set up for a 4.8L, it should be .750 not .60001

[69lt1bird]

Show were it says to do that or even rescale a NA car. His mods only say Trick Flow heads, big cam, FAST 92, headers, and other minor things, plus too big of a injector for this setup.
Am I missing something that says this thing is being blown on?

I would put the a stock GTO tune back in, add 15% to the VE table, setup the injectors like you have them, get in SD mode, connect a wideband and retune.

I think you have been thinking too much about MAP boundrys and other stuff. Get the initial tune done and dial in the rest after.

Bill or Chris or anyone in the know can correct me but I think the cylinder needs to be correct for the engine size or cyl air and other calculations will not be accurate for the engine being tuned.

[sabastian458]

in order to run the 60lb injectors within the 63.5 Limit in the E40 ECU, I have to scale by at least 80%. That is why certain things are scaled back like that.

I followed this scaling method. I had* a custom tune but it was just a modified 2000 camaro tune. SO I went into the repos, and pulled the stock GTO files. I started with that, then scaled accordingly.

The MAF tables I agree are pretty weird, but according the the logs, that is what the changes were suppose to be, I think.


I really, really, really appreciate yalls help with this

[sabastian458]

Show were it says to do that or even rescale a NA car. His mods only say Trick Flow heads, big cam, FAST 92, headers, and other minor things, plus too big of a injector for this setup.
Am I missing something that says this thing is being blown on?

I would put the a stock GTO tune back in, add 15% to the VE table, setup the injectors like you have them, get in SD mode, connect a wideband and retune.

I think you have been thinking too much about MAP boundrys and other stuff. Get the initial tune done and dial in the rest after.

Bill or Chris or anyone in the know can correct me but I think the cylinder needs to be correct for the engine size or cyl air and other calculations will not be accurate for the engine being tuned.

I was messing with the injector boundarys in order to get my idle fueling some what corrected, as with the large overlap camshaft, most of my idle fuel was being sucked out of the exhaust before the exhaust valve closed. That is also why in the 800-1000rpm 71-77kpa cells, it is leaned out a good bit as I had ALOT of fuel there thinking (according to the AEM wideband, set to Lambda) the engine needed it. I was wrong and was getting a false reading.

All the parts I have purchase were with the intentions of putting either a maggie, or a procharger (with corvette bracket) on the car. I learned the hard way with my last high HP car what happens when you buy the same part 2 or 3 times because you didnt get a large enough one.

[sabastian458]

The injector data wasnt scaled, but I am running Greg's injector data in the tune. I said that in the email incase you were to post the tune. I did not want to get into troble for posting a copy righted information.

[69lt1bird]

Well your first mistake is trying to piece together a car. If you are planning on running NA on your current setup it will always run like crap with those injectors, trying to scale a whole tune around a future mod doesn't make sense.

Sabastian, I apologize for the following rant...

..and Dogn, I do get crabby when you try to help people with half of the information. That's the way it goes, you have posted how many threads with questions about tuning and seem to very new at it, details of a persons setup, mods, tune, tuning experience are important if they truly want help or not.

I just try to help people so they can get the right information or point them where to find it. I do not profess to be a pro tuner but I do know engines and fuel injection and like to help people. The key part is knowing when to not offer advice and sit back and learn.

[dogn]

ok, sorry for putting you in a mood..
I will let you take it from here.
I will not Try To Help Anyone Anymore..
The forum is yours..


Sorry Sabastian458, This is My Last Post..
As I don't want to put anyone else in a mood.

[sabastian458]

WOW, ok so no help then?

[sabastian458]

thanks 69lt1bird. really thanks. You have helped SO much. How about you stop fussing about how I chose to mod my car. If you had nothing positive or constructive to say in MY thread, you should not have posted. Dogn was helping me, he even posted my tune up for me since my internet would not allow me to.

I asked for some assistance in getting my car running better, not "hey this is my mod list, bitch me out because I didnt do what you wanted." This injector is not too big for when the blower and or spray comes in, that is why I bought the injector. My issues are at idle and cruising speeds. Do blower/turbo cars make PSI during those 2 areas? I do not think so. How is it that they can idle and cruise without issues like mine?

regardless if I have a blower or not, my problems are not in areas where boost would be a factor. IF you were less of an asswhole today, maybe you would have been able to see that, instead of pissing off 2 other forum members because you were mad.

And, thank you 69lt1bird, for ruining my thread and not making a contribution to it.

[sabastian458]

and this is what I get when I try to upload my tune as an attachment on here. Keep in mind that I have been able to attach 2 other files already, yet when I attempt to attach my tune file, this is what I get.

[sabastian458]

I appreciate the lack of help from anyone. Thanks.

The damn car keeps going into "safty mode" still, no matter what I do. Also, I can not get the fuel to anything I command it to. The Lambda err says that the tune is arround 20% lean all over, I multiply the cells by 20%(what ever the err reading is) and go and relog. The new log says that the Lambda err is still 1.2x, meaning it needs more fuel. YET I beging to get raw fuel coming out of the exhaust, at idle the fumes are so bad you cant walk within 30ft of the car without your eyes burning.

[SSUte01]

I appreciate the lack of help from anyone. Thanks.

The damn car keeps going into "safty mode" still, no matter what I do. Also, I can not get the fuel to anything I command it to. The Lambda err says that the tune is arround 20% lean all over, I multiply the cells by 20%(what ever the err reading is) and go and relog. The new log says that the Lambda err is still 1.2x, meaning it needs more fuel. YET I beging to get raw fuel coming out of the exhaust, at idle the fumes are so bad you cant walk within 30ft of the car without your eyes burning.

What code is coming up in association with the Reduced Engine Power/Safety Mode, if any, sounds like an airflow associated one. It sounds as though the WB isn't reading acurately for one reason or another, I do not why but that is the first port of call IMO is to sort out your tools, without accurate data you will never be able to tune accurately.

I am trying to find your tune to see if anything jumps out.

EDIT: Attached your tune, looking now

I am guessing that your safety mode is associated with P0068, if this is the case you can either diable the test by setting the RPM really high (Engine DIagnostics ==> General) or increase the values in the table so that they are above the threshold to set the code. If this isn't the code, what DTCs do you have when the Safety Mode is entered????

Cheers

[SSUte01]

Had a quick squizz and here are some the biggest things that jumped out to me:

- You seem to have failed the MAF yet your MAF tables are quite far from accurate
- VE table (if MAF failed being referenced completely) has an enormous spike in the middle
- All OL tables set to 1 meaning no enrichment when cold, which wont be helpful for cold starts (although by the sound of it the super rich condition is sorting this for you)
- I was just about to ask about the zeroed IFR, Offset etc but I assume this is because info you got from the DVD so I'll leave that

95% of tuning issues in my experience have come from fueling (airmass modelling) so you must have a WB that is accurate be it hardware or software issues, once you have accurate lambda reading and you model the airmass using VE or MAF if you choose (don't recommend it on that cam) most of your concerns will go away.

P.S. Cams of that profile don't always like stoich in the bucking regions so once you sort out the safety mode, your lambda sensor and nail the VE, I would look at running a little richer in trouble areas. Also I have found that most WBs will struggle below about 2000rpm to be accurate with cams of that much overlap, reading lean no matter what meaning a lot of idle tuning is done on idle quality and cruising on alternative sensors or based on 'feel' which is not accurate at all, but dunno in your case all sensors are different.

Keep us posted

[sabastian458]

In the ls1gto.com thread, there is another tune further down labeled as "all new" That is my current tune I am working with, I threw out the "webable" one. I am sorry I didnt specify that.

I am fairly confident that my wideband is/was accurate, at least in the areas about idle. (I read up about the injected fuel being sucked out the exhaust valve before being ignited, and that is why the sensor would read "lean" yet still get raw fuel smell) To combat the raw fuel, I had started changing the injection boundary settings (they are all back to stock now tho) I first thought my "safty mode" was related to those tables being changed, but not any more.

Back on the wideband, I know the settings in the scanner for the wideband are good, as I have had 2 others use my settings and their wideband reads more acurate than what they had. YET I am not going to rule out the possiblility of something like and exhaust leak being developed and skewing the readings.


To try to explain the why to what you see, I posted in bold

- You seem to have failed the MAF yet your MAF tables are quite far from accurate
I have been trying to set my tunes into OLSD, so I can tune the VE table. I have not bothered to change anything on the MAF table because I thought that I had to do that after I got the VE setup close to right. I think that is how it is "best" to start off. I could be wrong, and thats why I am asking for help tho

- VE table (if MAF failed being referenced completely) has an enormous spike in the middle
Yeah, I smirffed there. I wasnt paying attention and had been just multiplying more and more. then when I realized I had way too much, I didnt look at the graph. Another reason I went back to a mostly stock tune to start all over with

- All OL tables set to 1 meaning no enrichment when cold, which wont be helpful for cold starts (although by the sound of it the super rich condition is sorting this for you)
I followed a OLSD tuning guide (would post it up, but file is too large for here) It has said to set all those tables to 1. So I did.

I think about 1/2 my issue is that I just started reading and reading, and allowed myself to get caught up in tuning. I started out fine and dandy, but after a few changes, I started changing too much at once and it just snowballed right into hell on me.

I should proly also explain that I want my car to have a lopey idle, and cam hard. I know it proly isnt the normal for that, but I like it. My "custom" tune was junk, but it idled and such the way I liked. If someone wanted to see what I actually, originally started with, I can send you in email the tune.

[SSUte01]

In the ls1gto.com thread, there is another tune further down labeled as "all new" That is my current tune I am working with, I threw out the "webable" one. I am sorry I didnt specify that.

I am fairly confident that my wideband is/was accurate, at least in the areas about idle. (I read up about the injected fuel being sucked out the exhaust valve before being ignited, and that is why the sensor would read "lean" yet still get raw fuel smell) To combat the raw fuel, I had started changing the injection boundary settings (they are all back to stock now tho) I first thought my "safty mode" was related to those tables being changed, but not any more.

Back on the wideband, I know the settings in the scanner for the wideband are good, as I have had 2 others use my settings and their wideband reads more acurate than what they had. YET I am not going to rule out the possiblility of something like and exhaust leak being developed and skewing the readings.


To try to explain the why to what you see, I posted in bold



I think about 1/2 my issue is that I just started reading and reading, and allowed myself to get caught up in tuning. I started out fine and dandy, but after a few changes, I started changing too much at once and it just snowballed right into hell on me.

I should proly also explain that I want my car to have a lopey idle, and cam hard. I know it proly isnt the normal for that, but I like it. My "custom" tune was junk, but it idled and such the way I liked. If someone wanted to see what I actually, originally started with, I can send you in email the tune.

I uploaded the 'all new' tune, sorry about that, I didn't read the other thread.

Ok assuming the WB is accurate then that somewhat verifies what I was saying earlier about tuning low airflow values around idle with alternative sensors (EGT etc) or by idle quality. You can make it as lopey as you want, but I almost guarantee that if your WB reads stoich or your NBs are reading stoich then you are super super rich with that cam and aftermarket headers.

Have you had a chance to see if any DTCs are set, I would've guessed P0068 is the culprit but only guessing there, gotta solve that 'Safety Mode'

Idle tuning is best dont using the scanner in real time IMO and then making the changes from there and then you can get the idle you are after, the hardest part of tuning a large cam IMO is always the light throttle/cruise areas.

If you are very confident in the WB, I would nail the idle so you are happy, becuase then it will be driveable (after the Saftey Mode is sorted), then WOT (if you so wish) and finally the cruising areas as these will be the most difficult and take the most time to perfect cruise, idle recovery, responsiveness etc, the reason I say WOt before this is it will give you more information to model from where necessary.

So:
1. Saftey Mode - Confirm DTCs in particular P0068
2. Idle tuning in driveway or wherever + RAF etc
3. WOT
4. Part Throttle/Cruise/Idle recovery etc

Again, part throttle with that setup may be best not at stoich but you will have to find this out for yourself.

Good Luck