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Thread: 4LXX and 6LXX transmission spreadsheets

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    4LXX and 6LXX transmission spreadsheets

    I had got a couple of requests to share my tranny speadsheets. I hadn't wanted to do this because I don't have the time or desire to answer the questions and comments that somthing like this produces. I don't care to help or share with the community, but take what I provide "as is" for the most part. If someone wants to take over the public aspect of this like Ken did with the VE/EQ stuff, you have my blessing.

    I'll tell you guys the same thing I tell my customers. The when and how a trans shifts in many aspects isn't a right or wrong. It's more of a user preference than any other aspects of tuning. The tables these sheets generate are along the line of how I like a tranny to shift. And as such are only a good starting point for people to work with. On shift and line pressures, every trans is different. Big time different. Trying to include stuff like that is much like mail order shit in general, an absolute joke. Shift speeds are different, and are more universal relative to the parts involved. So thats what we are going to touch on here.

    These spreadsheets were not built to be pretty, they were just for my daily use. To visually aid in what you need to change to use it...

    Greens are things you change as inputs.
    Blues are things it generates that you paste out into HPTuners.

    Rule #1 is no matter what, don't paste any speed tables into hptuners unitl you make sure that the numbers at the top in Blue for things like trans rev per dist and vss ppm match in HPT. So beat the speedo tab like a red headed step child. It pays to let hpt change tire and gear size first. Then make sure any other values you can change match what the spreadsheet comes up with. This will ensure that the vehicle speedo, scanner speedo, and table references all match. Also make sure your units match , english or metric before you paste. That goes for the tables to, as they can easily get set different between different tables.

    Rules #2 is use your head. Although the spreadsheets aren't layed out that way, if you change one thing they all have to match. So if you paste in the main shift table, you also need to make the WOT speed and WOT rpm reflect the same data. On 6Lxx stuff you will work your ass off the way they are broke apart and redundant.

    I also use mph for speed, so thats what my stuff is geared toward. Not just because my feet reside in the USA, oddly enough most other things I use in metric. But back in the day when we had to tune GM computers in a less automated format, the binary to engineering units was more of a direct link. I learned this stuff from air flow being is grams/sec, temp in celcius, and speed in mph - because thats how it was in the computer and thats the way I still view it today.

    Beyond that, all I can do is tell what you looking at and wish you luck. The "X" ed boxes are treated as check boxes. Its not really looking for an X, just anything non null. So make sure if you change them that only one place contains an X, and the others are empty. Not a space or any other characher you can't see, but cleared by hitting the "del" key.

    Sensor PPR: The physical pulses per revolution of the speed sensor. You'll probally never have to change it from the 40 used on 4l's or 36 used on 6l's. I use these spread sheets for many other things like checking speedo cal on a m6. Which you just set the PPR to 17, blow in the tire and gear, and verify the speedo tab in HPT. I also use it to set the speedo up for use with the front abs wheel sensors on a fbody with a non electronic tranny. Set gear to 1.00 (no gear) , PPR to 47, and the tire height off a front tire. Some year os's don't like 1.00 for a gear ratio and say error, but it still works.

    Trans type: Pick either 60, 80, or custom and blow in you actual gear ratios.

    WOT shift RPM's: Strait forward here. Just don't expect miricles here. I recomend having a 500 rpm cusion to the rev limiter. Remember to make these match in the tune as well.

    Final Drive: Your rear end gear ratio.

    Tire Height: What you measure it at, not what a web site or calc says a xxx/xx R xx is...

    Stall size: I hate using that terminology to describe a converter, but for simplicity thats what I went with. This is what makes my spread sheet different from what others have posted. Its used by the spreadsheets to esimate wot slipage near redline when the converter in unlocked for shift speeds. Its also used to move the lockup speeds up at higher TPS's so that the converter will only try to lock when the RPM difference bewteen locked and unlocked is at a resonable number. Most people will take a little getting used to this, but its keeps the converter from clunking in when it has to pull the engine down 1500 rpm when it locks up. Also extends you lockup clutch life. Your converter will thank me. Just remember if your ready for the converter to lock and it hasn't, let of the gas a little so it can. . If the end result is way off from what your looking for, try lying about your stall size or sliding the tcc tables a cell to the left or right. How much ass your engine has at different tps's and how lose or tight your converter is all affected by this. Way to much to estimate and get right all the time. This is just a starting point to base a good trans tune off of.

    Shift agressiveness: A value from 1 to 10. I like for an engine to lug around more than most stock calibrations. But I also like for an engine to skinner back at higher TPS's. So 5 and 5 by default is setup for my preferences. The first graph you see is the visual of the speed vs tps. Pink is upshift, Yellow is the downshift, Blue is the base shift function. Change the numbers to get what suits you and use the graph to see what the changes do. If you still can't get what you want, Change the "Base F" value down in the calculation area. This is all driver preference stuff, have fun.

    Down RPM: Max RPM you'd like to see on a WOT downshift. Setting it to 9999 or any number higher than your shift rpm lets it get calculated elsewhere. Most cars never need to change this. If at certain speeds your wot downshift is immediatly flowed by an upshift you can fix that here. Usually a 1000-1500 below your WOT upshift feels about right. I only use it for truck tow/haul setups so they don't work thier selves to death pulling hills with loads.

    Idle RPM: What your idle rpm is in gear. It's used to base low rpm shift speeds and as a part of the TCC lock algorithum.

    Min TCC Lock: For guys with cams that have horrible surge at low rpm (or people who can't tune). If you don't want your converter locked below 1800rpm, do it here.

    Unlock Pre downshift: A logical 1 or 0. Generally you'd like to unlock the converter if your needing to down shift anyway. Helps remove shift logic hicups. I recommend leaving it set at 1.

    Pre-shift lock x gear: Shift logic hicups usually play out better if you don't lock the converter until high gear. Atleast with the stock lock / unlock time delays built into 4LXX calibrations. 6LXX stuff is a different ballgame. If you set it to 1, you'll likely also want to turn the tcc allowed to stay locked during shift setting in your calibraion on. Thinking mans game if you do, it takes a lot to make it work right. I hate the factorys attempt at this in the calibrations that it does. Again, I recommend to leave this alone. If your going slow enough that you can't get 4th, but you want to lock the the converter (big stall creeping thought town), pull the shifter back into 3rd and let it do its thing. My tables are setup so they will lock in lower gears if manually selected.

    WOT x gear lock: Thats between you and your converter. If you converters lockup clutch is stronger than your engine, have at it. If you packin a 4L80, I also recomend letting it happen in 2nd gear as well.

    WOT lock @ % of redline: Changes when your WOT lockup happens. Unless you can prove it otherwise on a dyno by comparing power @ speed from a locked and unlocked pull, leave it be. 90% of the time thats about right. This is where seat of the pants tuning screws people on the street from the way it feels when you lock the converter early. Be smarter than the butt dyno. Earlier isn't always better.

    The rest of the green stuff is change at your own risk. If need to change it, then you should already know what it does.. Again, I can't stress enough how these generated tables are starting points, to help you get roughed in when you make a big change in stall size or gearing. If things still act stupid at times, thats for you and your human element to see why and fix it. If it was as easy as x=x for trans stuff, HPT would already have this type stuff built in the software.

    The files as posted are with stock stuff for your average 4l60 fbody and 6l80 vette. Here are some other examples to get people started.

    Cammed / stalled / geared F-body:

    WOT SHIFTS: 6400
    FINAL DRIVE: 3.73
    TIRE: 25.25
    STALL: 3400
    UP: 5
    DOWN: 6 (Or bigger when a loose converter keeps try to lug and build heat. Its better drop a cog and add gear ratio to the mix)
    DOWN RPM: 9999
    IDLE: 850
    MIN TCC LOCK: 1250


    Truck performance (AKA tow/ haul tables). I hate low rpm torque gutless LS engines screaming to 5000+ to climb hill with a load. Early year tow haul tables are the worse. Try somthing like this for those situations. I usually set normal and hot tables to the same stuff, and the tow haul and cruise tables like this.

    Performance (Tow Haul):

    WOT SHIFTS: 5000
    FINAL DRIVE: 3.73
    TIRE: 29.75
    STALL: 2000
    UP: 4
    DOWN: 4
    DOWN RPM: 3500
    IDLE: 550
    MIN TCC LOCK: 1000

    All of this has been updated here.......

    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?44953
    Last edited by Bluecat; 11-01-2013 at 08:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    Awesome! Thanks for sharing!

  3. #3
    Tuner in Training pmj341's Avatar
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    Great info!!

    Thanks for taking the time!!
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  4. #4
    Tuner in Training
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    You da man!

  5. #5
    Thanks for the help.

    EDIT: ingore my questions. Understood the sheet now.

    Brilliant research in this sheet. years of experience would do this
    Last edited by muayyadf1; 04-12-2010 at 02:05 PM.

  6. #6
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    PM sent to Bluecat

    Dave

  7. #7
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    what does the base F do?
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  8. #8
    Advanced Tuner Bluecat's Avatar
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    It changes the base shape of the shift curves. Change it up and down a little bit and watch how the curves react.

    My spreadsheets have changed a lot since I posted them, especially the 6lxx one. I need to up date these for you guys.

  9. #9
    Advanced Tuner 69lt1bird's Avatar
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    Yes, please update them, they are great to have.
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  10. #10
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    Please update the 6LXXe spread sheet, please.

  11. #11
    man true life saver!c5 4l60e! not sure on how different ur updated sheets are but this was wonderful to use and understand!!!!thanks again for ur killer formulas!

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner Ben Charles's Avatar
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    Good info, so the 4L60E and 4L80E tune the same way basically?

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  13. #13
    Tuner in Training reddevil96's Avatar
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    Bluecat, i tried to PM you but your inbox is full

    2004 suburban w/4l60, 1800-2000 stall, 275/70-17 tire to get the speedo to match gps the tire size is 31.06" and 3.73 gear HPT calculated size is 29.86

    no matter what i do i can not get the VSS PPM and the trans revolutions/mile to match up in your file to the current tune. what do you think is my problem.

  14. #14
    Tuner in Training reddevil96's Avatar
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    anyone have a solution

  15. #15
    sometimes it wont be exactly like the speadsheet.i belive its cause the the way hexidecimal is written.just try to get it as close as you can!
    feel free to correct me if im wrong guys!

  16. #16
    Advanced Tuner sarg's Avatar
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    Just found this, can't wait to give it a shot.

  17. #17
    Advanced Tuner Rinkrat456's Avatar
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    Ya no kidding. Interesting speadsheets. I'm curious to try the calculated settings vs what I have already based on the factory shift patterns modified by gear/tire calculator in HPT. I've been having transmission "hiccups" at light load with steady 50-60mph cruising in OD. It happens every 10-15 seconds unless I let off the throttle. My trans shop is thinking it's computer related.
    -Patrick
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  19. #19
    Advanced Tuner Rinkrat456's Avatar
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    So far I like the results. Using the spreadsheet figures solved my annoying downshifting issue when I come to a stop from say 20mph. I could hear and feel the tranny shift 4...3....2....1....and now it's smooth and unnoticeable.

    Only issue I didn't like was how quick the truck went into 4th gear. I feel like it lugs the engine too much down at 1100rpms and 40mph, so I moved those values up a bit to hold third a little longer. Cars and lighter vehicles may appreciate 4th gear soon like that but not a lifted 5000lb truck lol.

    Awesome spreadsheet though. If only we could calculate weight and engine size into the shifts.
    -Patrick
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  20. #20
    Is Bluecat still around? Is there any further update on this sheet? Thanks!